Planning Board, Regular Meeting

1. 0:00The planning board hereby grants site plan approval to the project. Authorizes the chairperson or her authorized designate to sign the site plan set after compliance with the following conditions. One, payment of all key fees in Nashville. Two, approval from the chair person or her authorized designate to sign the site plan. Thank you, Randall. An area variance for the proposed building height of 49t 3 in exceeding the permitted 45t limit. Planning board engineer approval of the detailed underground retention system layout, proof of completion of Horizon's removal of the underground cable, and planning board attorney approval of all neighboring grading access easements for retaining wall site construction and evidence of recording same with the Columbia County clerk. So I don't know you have any other condition. No, I I I'm just trying to hear you, but I'm also hearing the background noise. Can it be turned down a little tad bit or are we That's That's a Oh, that's a So, the important thing here is that the applicant still needs an area variance. And so, if they don't get it, they'll
2. 1:12have to come back and modify this plan. So, you know, they're taking the risk here. They're going to get it. It's immediately. Okay. Great. Yes, it's on there. Do we act upon without? So, normally we don't we don't like to do it, but as a condition as a condition here they they're taking the risk that if they don't get it, they come back. Okay. And it doesn't really affect their sight layout. I mean, yeah, normally it's something we don't want to lose, but there's a lot of people on board. Okay. Move on. Okay. So, um that's how I read it. If there if there's no questions, you can approve. Can I get a resolution to approve a motion? Are you making a motion? No. A motion? Yes. I'm making a motion. Second. Okay. All in favor? Any opposed? Okay. So,
3. 2:22this is this way. Yeah. Just one second. I don't need now. If you don't need it. Yeah, we're on. We're on. Send it to me. I'm just trying to do something. Okay. Can I get a motion to open the public hearing for 59 North Front Street Test? Second. All in favor? Any opposed? Is 59? Yeah. Um, hey everybody. I'm David. I'm the owner rep for Kite. Good to be back.
4. 3:34This is our 10th time on this project at the planning board. Um, you all also had a site visit with us back in 2003. Um, this is the sixth time in a row that we've been in front of you since since we reopened our conversations with you and our third public hearing. We have approvals secured from Shipo regarding archaeological and environmental and historic impacts on the site. We have approvals from the DEEC around our water plant. Okay. We have approvals from DEC around impact on vegetation and endangered species potential on the site. Uh we have letters of support from the chief of police, from the mayor, from department of public works. We have a traffic study that has come to a place of no comments and no additional feedback from you. Parking study and no additional comments. We have a hecraz report showing flood and water infiltration that has been cured by the engineer. We have done 12 shallow and six deep park tests along the site. We know a lot about the land that's going on there. We've also done 15 geotechnical well boards through the site. So you know underground site in that field. We have
5. 4:46submitted a whole new set of drawings to engineer which have handheld notes which we believe are um I think Chris could speak to it but there most of them are very very small and require a little bit of clarical cleanup. There's one comment around adding a landing pad for the sidewalk on the other side of the street to talk about. We're also here hopeful to close the public hearing to move on to the secret review and to get your approval tonight. I want a question about um the parking. Did you guys submit an updated parking study? I know the board asked about parking spaces that were on the adjacent lot. That's not been resubmitted. Yeah. So, the parking study never had any information or ever at any point relied on parking and the eastern parcel. So, if you had reviewed the parking report, all of our parking can be accommodated on the street and elsewhere without relying on the eastern parcel. So there the the concern was that we were like double counting those spots, but in fact we never relied on those spots in our parking report. Do you have a map in the report showing where all your parking spaces are? I believe we do. Justin, can you verify?
6. 5:57Yes. Is there? Yeah. I didn't look it personally. I'm a traffic engineer review. Yeah. Yeah, we it was clear through your office and we have we've never relied on parking. It had come up that you all like as a conversation as did sidewalk on the eastern side and many things have come up in our conversations together. But the report that we submitted doesn't rely on and it shows that there's plenty of capacity on the street to park without relying on city service. the eastern part because the eastern parcel is not part of this application. Yeah. But if they use the parking and that parking part of it so I'm going to push through it right now. Okay. Yeah. Please double it. Yeah. Everybody if I go to this door. Yeah. cuz I can hear Yeah, because I can hear people coming in and out. Yeah.
7. 7:10Any questions from the planning work other than while Christians? Any questions from the public for um 59 Street? Nobody has questions? because we did ask that is there anything outstanding in this that we should be commenting about? I don't know what we comment about. I'm just curious if there's something the penguins debate that you're debating about this proposion like for instance the traffic or anything of parking. I'm just wondering if it's so I would know if I want to I don't know the question for the board at this moment is whether their parking study and analysis um addressed all the comments from Barton and the Judas. Right. And and he's looking at it. I
8. 8:22mean, here we have a development coming up where you're going to have anywhere between 150 to how many people? 300 maybe. So, down there at one time, but 150. And does it a friendly reminder that it's mostly children who arrive by Okay. But how many when you have your events, how you said it was an educational center. So, what are we talking about here? Stipulated. Well, we could make it that would be I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. All right. Do you want to pull up that checklist again, Randall? Yes. So, if the board is ready, we could go through the checklist. We could complete seeker. We could close the hearing and then you could direct me to have a resolution for the next question. Question. Yeah. I want to know how many people have come in. We have that number. Yeah. All those numbers. You've had those numbers. I understand. Does somebody bring it up now? That's what I just asked a question about. Can somebody bring up the media code narrative on the site that's been posted there?
9. 9:33I could do that. Let's see for you guys. That one's gone. Oh, okay. So, we can but we can Yeah, we look you can do it. Well, you can get the secret done and then authorize resolution for approval from the committee. If you want to see the narrative, okay, we can move on that way because we are, you know, kind of So, we'll just do the sequel tonight if it's, you know, came with the board and then come back to that after it's reviewed and send a review to us for a month or something. Sure. I would just like to make a comment. Go ahead. Um I think there's much less parking concern for this project than for the hotel and I understand that that may be a you know that's your concern but my concern is slightly different and that's why I'm asking for it and we're going to let our consultant review it and get back to us. Okay. I have the
10. 10:46information you're looking for. I know, but he's going to review it. It's all there and let him review and we'll get back. Right now, we're going to just see calling him. Number of people you were asking for. Yeah. What did they say? 150. Yeah, that's the information I have. No, it doesn't say. It says it is generally expected that the number of employees and students will peak at 52. So, eight employees and 44 students during the hours of 3 to 6 during the school year and 10 to three during the summer spread across both properties. Special events will be limited throughout the year and will not exceed the maximum allowable occupancy which is 136 persons and that would be a handful of times a year. Sure. Okay. They also say there's 11 cars needed and there's 13 available on even days and the odds spaces are 37 bases. So there's enough car to go. Where? Um on the other side. Where are they? On Dock Street on State Street. Do street. On street. Yes. Do street on front street. And on State Street. Do street. Street from there over there. No, they
11. 11:56have a side over there. You don't need a sidewalk. Working. Yes. There is not a map that shows where all the spaces are. So we knew that. Yeah, we're not going to rely on but I appreciate. No problem. Yeah, there's just a statement made that those spaces are available. There's no like map showing where all those spaces are. Okay. Actually calling them out if it's a concern to that's something I want. I haven't been on I've been on street parking down there. There's no sidewalks on his parking. Both sides. Yeah. Okay. Duck street believe that I just want to make sure it's a wide street. Okay. So, if you want to go over seeker again short for list. Here we go. Well, yeah. Did we open the hearing before you say so? So, do you want to keep the hearing open or do you want to close it?
12. 13:07Does anybody else have anything? Anybody have any anybody else from the board has any questions? Okay. One I just asked. Okay. How about from the public? Good. Okay. So if you if close it, you need a motion. That there'll be motion to close it. Let me finish talking. Okay. I thought you were done. No, I know if um Okay. You want to get let's get um so is everybody satisfied with that? Because I did have a concern with that. That was a big concern of mine. Where were people in a park when they have their events? Um it is semi-residential with the tow um with the terrace being over there and then you know other things that's coming that way. And I just, you know, parking is an issue and I just want to make sure that your project
13. 14:12just because you're having an event, everybody else has to just and people don't park up and and they made a scout of parking on front street that took a lot of parking also. So, but I go by what Jean says. He's been doing this the longest and it's that big. I haven't been on that street. I know it's wide, but I didn't think it was in park that we have not seen a car on. Just appreciate your concern. Very concerned. We do currently use the site for the conductor program. So, it's not a very different use. So, we already are familiar with the parking that we currently use and there's never been I've never not I've never had an experience with not being I understand. But you're bringing in a new uh building that's going to bring in more people to the area, you know, and they're not going to walk. We're Yeah, we're actually serving the same community of young people. Not when you have your events, though, right? But we still And that's what I'm concerned about. But you can't hold that many people. 132, can you? In the in the building that you have now. We we have outside.
14. 15:22Oh, outside. Okay. So it's the same number of but you can't hold that many people. It's not it's not a different building. So I'm aware of what it looks like but it's very down in that area street. Nobody forgot the second means were in that whole area and and we've never had a complaint from because the residents have their own private parking and Steve that's something that we had asked for you to make um make it so that we can see the same thing that you see. That's what I'd asked for. you're telling it to me and I wanted you to make it so that I can agree with that. Okay. So, by Yeah. So, and yeah, we see it now and you know, we're in agreement now, but yeah, I just want to add that there's a parking study area figure in the report. It doesn't pull out specifically parking spaces, but it outlines which streets were included in that study and Doc Street was included. Okay. All right. So there's a planning board and we do things here by um majority group or anonymously I mean unanimously. So do you want to close the
15. 16:32public hearing for um they've got a lot of things though based on what he said? It's a lot of minor cleanup issues that need to happen on the plans. You know you still are not approving the site plan. So I I would say you're probably Yeah. It's just that when we close these when we close these issues with so many conditions, we lose touch of them. They don't pay escro. They hard to get in touch with. What are the conditions we're concerned about right now? Um everything that Christian had um given you that hasn't been but we could take care of speaker tonight potentially. Yeah. Or talk about the substantive issues that you're concerned about tonight. There's nothing really that there's a lot of issues. Yeah, I I think there aren't any actually, Teresa, and I'm seeking your full approval tonight because I think that they're they're not substantive issues. There's going to be approval with some conditions. That's totally fine. They can be conditional approval, but I'm seeking planning board's approval for us to begin this project tonight. I thought we Oh, go ahead.
16. 17:39I thought we were just voting on closing the public hearing. Are you saying that you're reading? No, we don't have a resolution for that. I I don't have a resolution prepared for that. Um I can have it prepared for your special meeting at the end of the month. Um if you want to move that forward, we can do seeker tonight or I mean we can just do a motion by void vote, but then we have to sit and we need to work out all the outstanding I was just No, that's that's exactly what we were doing. Well, let me ask this. How many items do we have that would be on the conditions if we approve the condition? Yeah, that was our plan to approve it just to maybe close the public hearing. Pressing it because this project has funding that's tied to it that if we delay any further, the funding will be lost and this project is contingent on public funding to be successful. We've already been here. That's why I started with my little speech about how many times we've been here and right we've had these documents in front of you for you to review from many many weeks. A lot of people come here a lot of times
17. 18:44but a lot of it's based on the quality of the work. So I just want to say you know the fact that you're coming back sometimes you're not giving the board what the corrections they ask. Glad you said that. But that being said I think everyone wants to find a way to move forward. So what exactly is your funding deadline? Our funding deadline is we we need all our permits in place including building permit by December. So we need you now so that we can get to Craig next month so that we can get our building. The reason I'm asking is because the board has a special meeting scheduled for two weeks. Okay. Um the 28th 28th is it three weeks? Yeah 28th. for the 28th um which might be less of a rush to so we can actually have a thoughtout resolution with all the right conditions and um but it's again it's up to the board we could we could cobble it together tonight now too what what were the there's uh 15 or 16 different engineering comments that are outstanding can you tell me can you can you just go through them please that he sent a letter there's a if you look at open my letter no so so that he understands and we all understand Yes, the plant count is different between the
18. 19:55schedule, correct? But every one of those have to be condition on the plan, on your resolution. I understand, but just to talk about the the the weight of those comments and how challenging they would be for us to resolve. But is it possible that you know you can work on those by? Of course, we can work on them and we will work on them and continue. We're seeking your approval so we can move on and the project won't be injected. When did when did when did he issue that letter? When did he get that letter? Last when? What's that? When? 10 days ago. 10 days ago. And you're saying so today. Do you have do you have all the answers for for those conditions? No, the comments went yesterday. That's what I wanted to know. The comments yesterday. We weren't able to turn around new drawings for tonight. But we understand what those comments are. We've discussed them with our engineer. Okay. They we attempted to contact Christian today to discuss them with him also. We weren't able to get him on the phone but the comments the nature of the comments is very minor. I think Chris just agreed with that and and well that's why we can close the
19. 21:02public hearing and go to the secret but you know as far as approval we have to they're all going to go on the they're all going to go on resolution the conditions and that's just you know just we're trying to get away from approving things with that many conditions we would really like to approve it with about four or five we lose touch of the people may I ask something like if you on the agenda for October 28th. Do you feel that you were reasonably able to address most of those conditions, those minor conditions and get them cleaned up or you feel like you need more time? Engineer is nodding his head. So yeah, he's nodding this way. Yeah. So why at that point we'll have something very thorough. It'll be well thought out. Um, I would think that that would be what does it a difficult place? So, I hear you and I appreciate it's another 14 days. Yeah. So, what do you have to do between now and December have to go to Craig?
20. 22:11Yeah, we we still need to go through Craig Hig and building department review which is going to How long does that normally take? written in director. Maybe you could push him. Push him back. One thing, one thing we could do. This is different. It's not It's not good practice. Let's not do it. Okay. Here, but you know, we don't want to do not good practices. We've got a lot of things on our board, a lot of things approved that we can't we're not in contact with people. You're going to hear it, but let me finish. Okay, you're going to hear it. You know, I just don't want us to continuously get into things that's going to bind this board up. Okay, go ahead. No, I I I understand. I'm just saying given the circumstances, one thing we could do is you could we can go through a speaker closing her, you could approve it based on the condition that they satisfy each and every comment in Christian's October 13, 2025 letter. And then I can write that up in a resolution for you adopt in two weeks on 28th. So by the 28th.
21. 23:18Oh well, listen. Okay. Well, we could do that tonight and then you can kind of uh we'll have a more formal resolution for the 28th. I don't know what I don't know what the two weeks get to, but you're acting not sure. Does that mean that they'll get approval tonight? It means it's conditional the same thing they would get next, you know, in two weeks until they make these edits. But conditional approval. Can you go to Craig? For sure. Yeah, that would not go to Craig until Teresa signs the plans which require you to make all these and that's what's happening now when I told you that. Okay. A lot of people are taking these resolutions and going to That's what I'm saying. I don't think we just can't continue to do that. You can't go to Craig until you've met these conditions and Teresa has signed. You just give somebody conditional approval and Teresa's going to sign it for the applicant prior to ours. But she's going to sign the resolution. But she has to sign the plans with the conditions of met and that's only so there's a period of time. It means you don't have to come back to the full board. Okay. But that would be great because you don't have to we don't have to come back. Yeah. So if you have a clean resolution Yeah. That's fine. You get a signed plan that night or the next day. Correct.
22. 24:27And no one yet has had that. So So are we Let me back up for a second so I can make sure I understand. been working on not too much sleep. Okay. So, so what I think I'm hearing is that perhaps tonight we are going to do SRA but we're based on certain conditions that he must meet and he and his engineer says he can have them done within 14 days. Did I hear that? By the 20th. That's 14. That's 14. That's 14 days. He gets them done a few days before that. Christian can review it, confirm it's complete, and then Teresa can sign after the and then you can and you could do the Okay. But if we do it in three days, you could review it. We could sign it and have it five days, right? I mean, that's how that I understand that right. Does it have to happen at the special meeting if it only requires Teresa's signature? No. As soon as you get it done, that would be sweet. No, that's we close the public hearing. And then do a So why don't we start with the sequ and then we move forward.
23. 25:40Okay. We first you want to do before to close the public. Yeah. Yeah. Close the public. Okay. Can I get a motion to close the public hearing for 59 North Front Street? I make a motion to close. Second. All in favor? Any opposed? Okay. The public hearing is closed. Now we can do the sequence 459 North. Okay. You want me to talk again? Oh, see that's I think this one is going to be much longer, right? Action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulations. It's I mean it's permitted by the zoning. So I would say it's not a material conflict. Unless you can identify where difference building a unit where one already done. That's true. The other one was an existing building building that's coming up. But this particular question is about does it conflict with the city's adopted land use plan and zoning regulation?
24. 26:49No. Number two. Will the proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of use of land? So no, small or moderate to largeity. It is going to change as there's nothing there. A small impact because it's consistent with other uses in the neighborhood or is it a moderate impact good or bad? Impact is bad. Oh, but it's still a moderate it's still a moderate impact. A good impact. you know, right? Right. Right. That's subjective, but right now it is wouldn't be a hugely different. It would be a small Well, they're building a building on something that's not all torn down and not size scale of the building. So, the question is, is the size and scale of the building consistent with other nearby buildings or is it so out of scale the neighborhood? You know, did they ever give us a They did one time. There's nothing else down there. So, I think I think at that time they said they're going to have a outside theater, right? Did you
25. 27:57get rid of that little seating area? Outside seating area, but not the theater. What do you you know I say small to say. Yeah. Small. Come on, guys. was killed. Small modern majority small proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community. No no not a CA4. Will it result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect infrastructure for mass transit, biking or walkway? No. No. No. Because it's the same that's going there now. It's it's existing roads. Not if they have enough. We don't need to make system. Yeah. They already have a So something that would So the majority says no. No. No. For the purpose of this question though, something that what this question is getting at if you are putting a use in that requires maybe the widening of a roadway
26. 29:04or a traffic light or some um some mitigation because it's going to create a large impact. That's that's getting moderate to large. But here we understand that the road system can support the use. They're putting in a crosswalk. Put in a bus stop. They are putting in a crosswalk for certain amount of kids. Crosswalk for people in the cross to be safe. I don't think they can put in a light not enough water for it. Right. So um you know I just have a difference of that what the majority rules. So what do majority understand very nuanced? I understand it but to me that understanding reflects well you have a different opinion. Exactly. So majority I think majority was not okay. Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? No. take some consideration. So again, something something here that would be moderate to larger will be does it need a new transmission station? Do we need to put in new wires?
27. 30:16Okay. Will the proposed action impact existing public private water supplies and public private wastewater treatment facilities? No. No. No. Will it impair the character or quality of important historic, archaeological, architectural or aesthetic resources? No. No. Will it result in an adverse change to natural resources, wetlands, water bodies, groundwater, Florida? No. Will it result in an increase in the potential for erosion, flooding, or drainage problem? No. Well, that's been addressed. So you looked at that issue and your engineer agreed that they that's been addressed. Okay. Wasn't that mentioned? They will need a permit through the city when they get to the What kind of permit is it? Okay. Does that Yeah. And that doesn't affect us in any way, does it? I mean it's part of your secret review. So you are reviewing the impacts of that flood permit
28. 31:25what it comes after. Correct. Permit and the observation and the flow outcomes after just like a building permit. So how about the fact that we review separate? Well, you reviewed the impacts per model. All right. Will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources and human health? Hope not. No. Okay. So, bas based on all of this, you could make a motion to adopt a negative declaration. Okay. Can I get a motion? I make a motion. Just um uh who second? Okay. All in favor? Any oppos? Okay. So, be it stop. Okay. Now, I guess a motion to approve, please. Well, I'm under commission or you want to wait till next. Don't have me in. No, I'm just saying I'm looking I'm got my head turned this way looking over there. Well, that's not Okay. Do you want to have a motion to
29. 32:31approve the um psycho application with the conditions? I think that's what what we about. Yes. Okay. So the majority says be you'd be looking for a motion to conditionally grant site plan approval. Um conditions on the applicant satisfying uh the planning board engineer satisfaction uh the outstanding items in the October 13th, 2025 letter from Barton. And do we put a date on when they have to satisfy because they can't go to Craig this they want to take three months to satisfy it? That's up to that. It sounds like they don't they want to have it in 14 days or less. Um I mean the other conditions also payment of all fees and escrow. Um I mean get the site plan back. Okay. Do we want to do uh do we want to approve the site plan tonight with conditions or do we want to wait? I make
30. 33:38a motion we do it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? All in favor? Nay. All All oppose. I want to make sure it's on the record. I think we should almost I want to make it because I just can't seem to get it to you guys that many things with a lot of conditions are backing us up, causing problems. But I say no, but it's going to approve. Well, I'll just say for the record that in this case with these extenduating circumstances to help something that is going to be such a benefit to the community, it seems but a whole lot of every application that comes here, applicant that comes here thinks they're going to be a benefit, sees themselves as a benefit. But this is actually a benefit. But if we ask the children who have benefited from it children, we've got a whole bunch of we got a whole bunch of organizations that are tending to the children in this area. They're all benefits, right? And and every applicant that comes here thinks they have benefit whether they're tending to the children
31. 34:48or not. That's the way, you know, if they're not if they're just going to not listen to us as when we ask for something, they don't give it to us, then we've got to do something about that. But it passed. So, let's move on. Right? So in this case, the applicant understands they need to do all the work, work directly with Christian to make sure that is satisfied and then you can arrange with Tesa to sign your site plan before you go. Thank you. Okay, that's it. Thank you. We're not going to let you down. We are going to Yeah, um new business. Now we're on new business. It's not a public hearing. We won't be asking questions from the public. We're just going to move on. And that is Three Storm Street. Three Storm Avenue, which is the five pens. The chicken,
32. 35:59where were you last month? I missed it. Sorry about that. Is Linda on? Hold on a second. Hold on a second. All right. So, I don't see Linda. She has to be let in, but it is being it is being broadcast. Okay. So, you're you have a recording? Yeah, I have a recording. And yes, and it's live. Oh, it is. Yeah, I'm looking at it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. So, you want to introduce yourself? Yes. And tell us what you name is. I recently moved to Hudson from Orange County, New York. Um, and I am permit for my four hands. whose name is guy Lucy and Apple and baby and ginger. I used to have all the
33. 37:05spice but now I'm Oh, something something happened to one of them. Well, chickens on the application. You said something about a a was it a a coupe on wings? Yes. Uh I've made all the mistakes already. Uh these chickens have cost me more than any other pet ever. Um so now it is a chicken coop, but actually it's going to have wheels that I can push out and I can move it. That way the grass doesn't all die in one spot. Uh because they they do kill the grass pretty quickly. So I can move it in my yard in different spots. This being a new, you know, this being new now, when you move it, then you may not be within the regulated setbacks and stuff like that. So don't for one thing, the applicant is required to provide you with a map showing compliance with the sections. Um, I'm not sure. you guys should review to see if you believe it shows what's
34. 38:15required. But we didn't see the distance between the fence and the beak boundary or the chicken coop. Yeah. But one thing um she could do if it's movable is draw kind of a box like that, you know, poop should stay within this envelope and then she can move it around within that envelope. But she has to show you. Do you have a picture of the that envelope will meet the setbacks no matter where she moved on her? Correct. to have a and then a different areas where she can move it that that fits the requirements of the setbacks. Yeah, I'm I mean I don't I think it's fine if she moves it as long as she shows you right. Do you know how big your lot is? Uh I I think I I looked it up and put it in the obligation but probably had a little number. Um, my yard is entirely fenced in uh in the back and I would say I have at least from where I plan to put the hoop, I have at least 100 ft in the back and at least 50 ft on each side to defenses. Um, so I'm not talking uh moving the thing all the way just a
35. 39:23couple of feet and then put it just for a while to clean and then put it back. I also have this boxes that I've made that I put on the ground and I find grass underneath they have cloth on top so the grass can regrow on this. As I said, I've already made all the mistakes. So, we have a picture of that. Randall, can you pull up the map? It's just so you can see that it doesn't have the distances on it that it's in the application. Well, I could do that. So, the board does need to set a hearing. So, you could set the hearing for the next meeting and then she can come back with the measurements a picture of what it's going to look like. The one on wheels. No, don't show me. Submit it. That's okay. Okay. So, do we want to set a public hearing because all because these type of um applications required required a public hearing. I wish they didn't but we do. So,
36. 40:35do you hear you have to come back? Yeah. And do you understand with a map of the whole backyard? Uh, so that one is not good enough, but Still doesn't have the problem is the drawing doesn't have distances on it. So if you look at the code in section 70 has a list of like setbacks and things. So they just need you to demonstrate that where you're putting the coupe meets on all sides those setbacks. And also it needs to show food storage and waste removal. How where are you going to put the food and where are you storing the waste? I I should write about that. Uh the food gets taken inside and I keep it in galvanized containers. Um they're all important things. And I'm using um um hemp bedding which works pretty much like a litter box. You scoop it and then just There we go. I got it.
37. 41:54Yeah, I thought that I put a little uh square and uh Yeah, I was a little challenged. What was that section? It's um 70- 17 and the condition is 3254 everything. Oh, there it is. So, we Yeah, here we go. Hello. So if you um have any more questions you can, you know, we'll get the memo out to you so that you can understand where you said what you have to do and we'll put you in the public hear. So I want to motion for Adam. I'll make a motion. I second it. All in favor? Okay. Then uh public is going to be um uh oh November is going to be another issue
38. 43:01because November 11th is a holiday. It's Veterans Day, right? Listen to us. November 11th is Veterans Day. So we got to move that we got to move. Is Veter Veterans Day is a holiday? with us. Yes. So, and our our meeting on the second Tuesday and it is a holiday. So, uh at the end of the meeting, I guess we'll come to Well, we need to identify the date for the we need the calendar. Can someone see if I can get the calendar for November sooner than later for for the city calendar? Yeah, for is here city calendar from November. Oh, I'm still see. Let me see. We're trying to get the date up for the next public. Okay. I mean for the next planning
39. 44:09are you definitely on the 28th? Yeah, that's what I was wondering. November by the 28th. Okay. Okay. I mean if you're definitely meeting on the 28th just it looks like we had voted to have that as a date. So it looks like yeah if we didn't get that's we did but I wrote it right not only that we have the applicants act you know can they come on the 28th since they didn't make it on this motion set the public hearing for October 28th 2025 okay do we want to meet it's up to the board I don't want to meet what do you want well then you need to pick another date for November well let's pick a date for November Are we do we have closure in and giving um this applicant an idea of when we're going to put her on? We're looking for a date for I don't I don't think much time. Okay, let's look for um let's get a date for November because if we do meet on
40. 45:17the 28th, there are at least one two at least two other applicants in front of her that have already can they meet? We didn't There's two applicants that came in. they didn't come in on time and um and then one that's already here that we just couldn't get to. So, we're going to have three applicants that's going to be on that date if we meet on that date. Okay. Okay. So, let's get a date for the for November and you know, we can always change it, you know, but let's get a date for November because we're going to need it. How about the 18th, which is the next phone? We need you know what we need before we even get the date? We need the council. Yeah, we yeah, we need to calendar for the city to make sure we're not doing a date on the same or if we have to move it here. But if we have it here, it doesn't matter. We have to get and then we got to find out if this is available. Yeah, I have the calendar. I mean, it's on the website, right? Yeah, but yeah. So the 11th still had you on the plan board.
41. 46:27Okay. Yeah, it's better. Okay. So that what do you want? What date you want to look at the 18th? Look at the 12. That's that's Wednesday. Wednesday. Um housing trust fund board hybrid 5:30 6:30 maybe 6:30. Yeah. 6:30 the 12th. How about the next day? Wednesday, guys. How about the next week? Wednesday. Um I'm not sure Thursday. So I may not be available. You're not You may not have much. I may not. How about over here? I see the calendar. How about you available on the 12 12 6:30 city hall? Yeah, I should be. Okay. Yes. Yes. I think so. Dr. Young, would you say I am not 100% sure. I just booked a whole bunch of appointments and they were going to send me for November and December and they were going to try to send me the whole list and I don't see it yet.
42. 47:39There were Wednesdays and Thursdays were going to be the two things that we're looking at. So, city hall or city hall? Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. I got the list. Hold on. Hold on. We have everything. Well, we looking at November the 12th. Okay, that's fine. Because the 13th is Okay. So, we're going to schedule our planning board meeting for November the 12th next month. and we're going to schedule your public hearing for that date. Okay. So, all just to clarify, all I need now is the site is the drawing and the measurement and the sign and we're going to email you the middle. Okay. So, you can have it a minute. Thank you, Kitty. Thank you. Oh, where is it? I mean, you you should reset it because there's a lot of discussion. Okay. So, can I get a motion to to hold
43. 48:47a public hearing for three Storm Avenue on November 12th, 2025 at 6:30 p.m. I'll make a motion. Second. Second. All in favor? Oppos? Okay. Thank you. Have a good night. 519. Okay. 519 Columbia Street. My name's Kevin. architecture. I am here tonight to uh request a change of use for 519 Columbia Street uh from a warehouse storage use to a group stem merile use. Um it's we're not proposing any change
44. 49:57to the building right now. proposed is to try to get I mean to the physical characteristics of the building right now is get a change of views so that the owner of the building the building and try to solidify a retail tenant. So that's important. It's just sort of a process. Any questions for the planners? The entire square footage will be used right in this for this year. That's correct. One one that is that that's what the landlord would like to cover. And that's a big building. I went in there when it was when it was just 53. Do you know what type of retail? At this point, there's nothing said. It's currently a warehouse, so he's limited in terms of who can, you know, who he can find to use that space. And I saw the front. You did the front like a store. They cleaned it up. So, right now, they just Someone went in there, put the windows in it, fixed the roof, fixing the roof
45. 51:06was caving in on that and the back, too. Cleared it out. They they cleaned up. They emptied the building out. They sort of they're prepping it to make it leable. So, I mean, what would you want to see? Because they didn't give us I mean, they're saying there's no structural changes to the building. you want to see the pictures renderings and how how are customers going in and out? So, there's currently egress on both Columbia Street and uh prison on the back. There's doors on the front and back of the building. Um there's everything that's there is existing. We're not proposing to change anything at this point. And I would imagine that should we submit something to the building department when a tenant comes in and if they want to change something on the outside of the building to make it more marketable for their business then we'd be back here to review those changes. I I wanted us to go through this to change. Are you going to have have handicap access? I'm sorry. Are you going to have handicap access? There is there is handicap access.
46. 52:15Okay. I've never really come to a planning board to just get a change in use for a building. So that's what I'm trying to figure out why you're here. I asked that question a change of view. We're looking for a change. So you have to consider it. No, no, no. So planning with this change of use but the questions you would be considering would be you know is this use going to have impacts which would require you to have you know a new circulation pattern they don't know what they're going to they're just going to be retail they don't know what type I mean are there going to be trucks backing in how are they going to be loaded and unloaded site lighting is that changing that is a huge space I wonder what type of store would go there. It could be anything. Yeah, it could be a Walmart, but it can't be a restaurant. It's not that wouldn't be a that would be an assembly space. Have you done any photometrics on the building in terms of what you want to do for lighting in the front? No. But again, I think that to me that's
47. 53:23what they want to do in their tenant. They want to put crazy lights on it. that we'd have to come back to and present to the lights. So, right this you're just asking for approval for change. If there's any other big changes, we would see you again here. No, I'm ask No, if there's changes to the outside, if there's changes to the outside. So, I I what I think I'm asking for is to say yes, you can go from a warehouse use to a merkantile use. Correct. And that's I think so then we can check a box to the building owner and say yes you can market this towards a retail establishment now and then when they don't have I'm sorry if a retail establishment come in once it's approved they don't have to they won't have to come here unless they want to change something on the outside and you're correctly zoned you're zoned for right it's fine if if if a if a tenant came in and they wanted to change something on the building the outside on the outside of the building. Would we have to come back to the planning board for that or if they wanted to put signage up or
48. 54:33no if they wanted if it was a re if it was a retail that's coming a retail whatever came in there based on what that I don't think they come back there. So one of the things though it does look like this needs to go to county because it within 500 ft of Route 9. Is that right? NG 9 Columbia Street is 9. It's 9. It is Columbia Street's 9. So definitely So it's on Columbia Street. It's right there. Pass right back. So they have to go. So that's something I could do tonight. Let's refer it. Get that escrow. Okay. But but he has to go to the county for change of use. No, I don't see this particular use. Um the county has an exemption. The county planning board has an exemption agreement with Hudson that says you don't have to send certain very minor applications. I don't see this kind of change of use listed, right? Um so on the exemption list on the exemption list, which means I think the default is we have to send
49. 55:43it. They probably don't have any comments, but we can just send it. Okay. Okay. So, we could we'll do that. Any questions? Yeah, they might have water and sewer. We need to do a water and sewer report and go through that DDC permitting process with DPW. You're going to be changing the use from warehouse which is a less to a retail. But don't they have volume thresholds that are pretty robust? Not you know, you know, to go to DC, it's had to be like a multi-dwelling. It had to be the cities under Connecticut center were as far by now, right? So any in use has to go to DC. Okay. This is that newer thing that the DC I mean maybe it's not as new as I'm thinking, but this is like laundry in my mind. We're talking like laundry usage gallons per day, right? gallons per day threat. Correct. Warehouse is going to have a smaller gallon per day than a than a
50. 56:51retail store, right? So, you're going to need to change that. And there is a permit process. Um sidewalks out here. This is the time for the board to look at the sidewalks, bring them into compliance. There is a law that any development in the city of Hudson has to upgrade your sidewalks meet current standards access to think about if they don't do anything the outside building they put a retail store in it they don't need to come before you again right um I can't remember are your sidewalks redone I don't remember I don't remember if they are I don't think so no they're not not so it'll give us because this this particular type of I don't think it's but I think it's approved I think it's okay does it have a roof on it now yes the picture okay there was the roof had failed at one point so that was part
51. 57:57of trying to get this building weather tight again so you're going to update in the pictures Well, those are problems. These are we're trying to solve. Yeah. Okay. So, um we can start tonight. Do you want to do the escrow first? Uh can I get a motion to propose escrow and being that the day will be reviewed by you, Christian? Right. So I'm going to suggest because Gan and I try to suggest to you because we don't want to keep coming back to the applicant for every little thing and they are charged. A lot of times they come in and they hire engineer for their project but somehow another they just you know spend a lot of give a lot of money to our consultant. So, I'm gonna suggest 10,000. I say five. I was saying five. I said five. Okay. I'm g say I'm gonna say 10. And um still going to say right now it's a sign. It's conditional use permit request. How much work are you going to be involved in?
52. 59:09If you require a traffic study, parking studies, um if you require, you know, review the water and sewer report. Well, I think the parking is right next door. So, I think if it's going to be public park, there's there's parking there. So, so I don't think we issue parking. That's city parking right next to everybody else parking. I think it's meters parking. The city city meter parking meters are Then you got public parking on Columbia Street. No parking in the alley. All right. And I just want to say all escrow money is returned. Yeah. That's not used. It's returned to the applicant. Yeah. But we don't want to make it ownorous, but we don't want to make it where we have to continuously notify them to pay when they a lot of times they ignore it. So um so just so I so we're talking about
53. 1:00:15maybe the water sewer report that's right perhaps the water and sewer report site plan that it's probably $35 to $4500. Did you pay your application fees? Yeah, I think we did. I remember seeing the money. Is this going to be like a cannabis use? Because then we would want to see where people are coming in and going out because they need to do separate doors. I don't I know that's one of the t that's one of the potential people. But he he hasn't confirmed but nothing is confirmed. We get this to approve for but once we approve it even that doesn't have to come back to unless they're putting in a new door or something but I don't know. I think we've got a lot of questions. Yeah, we do have entrance and but that's not what we're evaluating now. We're just evaluating to go in and out. There's like a oneway path through the store. So, but the one that exist the one that just now that those two doors on the inside
54. 1:01:25I actually haven't been, you know, Gabby, I never been there. just went to the door and looked in and they have you go one door to go in and then and then when you go in there's a door to go in and then come back out. But it's the same door though. The door on Columbia Street and the door on prison alley suffice. No, no. That that that door on prison alley that's only going to be for emergency because there are no entrance. But they both need to be ADA compliant. Got it. So I think the prison alley we have that's emergency. Yeah. Into the building. We have a ramp in the building on on the back side of the building. So both sides are ADA accessible. The front side is not today. The Columbia Street is not currently accessible. We need to solve that problem. Have you finished the building there? Because I know she was doing a lot of work and it looked like it was finished, but it's not. where it's to a point where the meeting with Craig with the permit to do the repairs that we got to a point where it said let's let's stop what we're doing and come before the planning board to try to talk about this change of use so we can check that box right refusal letter is in your cl let's see
55. 1:02:36what it's see so the building you can't get to mean today there's a step that's building. Yeah, that requires accessibility. Okay. Through the we can personality entrance. It's a site plan for check do that. Not that we want to do that, but I'm saying satisfy tonight's discussion that we could make that the primary entrance. You know, I don't I don't know that the site plan review for how we make Columbia Street the primary entrance accessible. I don't know that that Well, it it makes more sense. It makes more sense to have actually that that around the back because there's a cutout in the in the parking area through the parking area to get to there. Otherwise, you'd have to stop on but I remember reading something from the Kona said that the alleyways are not to be used for main entrances.
56. 1:03:48Well, they up to the code enforcement because I remember reading something that wrote to that. They just opened that restaurant in the cannonball factory that has a rear exit. So that can't What? A restaurant in what facial but the entrance is in prison alley. Yeah. Well, they always had an entrance in prison alley. Yeah. They always before it was something else. It's always been like that there. But why wouldn't that be the case with this building then? It wasn't always like that. There's always there's always been a door but never for a main entrance. Main entrance was always Columbia as I remember that but the cannonball that place on the corner of fourth and always had that entrance there instead of uh Columbia Street. I don't think so. No, it has always on street there's always an entrance. It was an entrance. I don't know if that was the main entrance when it was the Etsy. When it was Etsy when it was Etsy it was on the corner parking lot but that's not what they're talking about. about the one on the
57. 1:04:55corner that's now I don't believe that's what I think all right we won't study at school so let's not get away from that let's I said um you guys say 4500 department says I'm not I'm not right es department okay so then it's whatever the escro department says we you have Jean I say 10 we don't have to go back we don't know that there's too many things that's uncertain here somebody split the difference there you go Can I get a motion to set the escro for 7500 for um the five names in Columbia Street?
58. 1:06:01Can I get a motion? I make a motion. Second. All in favor? Any oppose? Okay. So, we set the escro. We'll give you a resolution to that. We'll be sending it to you. So, I guess my question or like I'm just looking for clarification as to what the what other what information are you know reports information is needed for okay can you once you said escrow then he's going to do it okay because I was also going to say that if you still are have slight confusion about the changes that you need to make maybe you and Chris you know do emails and then you can have a whole list of this is what he just said you know so that there's no question in your mind about them you know but pay goes First, is it most things about money lately? The treasur's office. Yeah. Okay. Check should be made out to the uh to the and um deliver it to the treasur's office. Okay. We have another resolution though. You want if you want to start that tonight, we can classify it. You guys should
59. 1:07:12decide whether you want to do a coordinated review or an uncoordinated review. Coordinated means we send it to like department of health. I I don't really think there's not tie up. Yeah. Yeah. In an uncoordinated review and we take it would be that you classify the project as an unlisted action under seeker in an uncoordinated review which means you're lead because there's no one else involved. We're not, you know, we're not sending it anywhere except for the reference to the the county and then direct direct the secretary to refer the site plan to the Columbia County Planning Board pursuant to 239M of the general municipal law. Right. Okay, sounds good. Sounds good to everybody. Is that a motion or a motion? Can I get a motion? Motion for what? What? What she just said? I'm just I just make a motion for the stuff that she just said. You made it. There you go. I second it. Favor. Any oppose? Good question. So, you'll get a note. Okay. Yep.
60. 1:08:23Thank you. Thank you. Okay. All business. Really? Okay. 7071s. Yeah. 772 North Street. You need a break. You want a break? I could use Okay, let's take Let's take a five minute break. No more than that. Okay, resuming the meeting at 8:19 p.m. And now we're going to call up for old business. Um 70 there 72. Yeah. No. I mean do y'all you know we realize that you have to go we have to do a public hearing but we never did. There's certain level of redundancy there. You do a public hearing the zoning board. The zoning boards are required to do a public and the pony
61. 1:09:32board because each board is looking at slightly different things. I know it sh they're both required by state law. So the law we can do things different in the years to come but right now it's the way us old people do them. Not even old people have done. So um so you got your uh he went and got an uh what is the approval for variance? He received an area variance from appeals we in September gave him a neg in August September he got his area varian so now and we understand you know that you you're like gosh but this is what I'm saying things get lost. Yeah. Okay. Remember they were so I read it. Okay. So, can I get a motion to set the public hearing for 70-72 North 5th Street for um November the
62. 1:10:4012th 12. Thank you. 2025 City Hall 6:30. I'll make the motion. All in favor? Any oppose? And that's about we've already been sending you notices for es right. Yeah. So about it. Okay. Thank you. Excuse me. It's sound. I can listen. I I'm watching it right now on YouTube and I can see it. Well, let me let me see. I'm listening right now. 22 um 75 North I mean South Front Street. You mean here? Great.
63. 1:11:52Not bad. I want to thank everybody ahead of time. Brought some much better organized uh visuals for everybody. If you want to want to pass it down. Yeah, it definitely is. Definitely is What do you got? Who is this? Okay. If it's not enough for everybody else, do it. How sweet. Do I have these? Do I have these in the upload? Are these re Did you put them these
64. 1:12:59uploaded? Uh no, I'll I'll go over that. Um we just got them today, so they will be uploaded with for uh Michigan firm to review them before the next planning board meeting. But, you know, tonight is a short period of time between the last meeting and this one. So, today we're just going to provide a quick update on any plans we made, but there still are some outstanding things that we're working on getting to you guys as soon as possible. Okay. Can you do me a favor? Can you move down? I'm trying to get them into the shot. Yeah, just slide down. Sorry. Yeah. And if you guys come over here, just come over this way. towards you. Yeah, that would be good. Everybody can see you. There is sound going out for sure. There's I'm looking at it and I'm listening to it and I can't even see that. I don't I don't see how they could not be getting the sound because I'm watching the YouTube channel right now and I'm listening to it. Sorry. But but hold a second. Just hold a second. Now this is going to be uh I just want that you know
65. 1:14:12okay that this is going to be between the planning board and the applicant. We will not be taking comments from the public. Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. Um so just an update on read topic one. Um Christie did ask for us to add photometrics to the lighting plan, right? Which we have done. We will submit that lighting plan. Um we got a confirmation they were able to do that. We'll submit the lighting plan the meeting lab well in advance of the next meeting. So you'll have time to take a look at that. Um landscaping. Um it's similar the to last time where we're going to show you sort of current one year, five year depending progression of of the screening. Um so any went back with some of the comments on especially we'll start with the vegetative screening. We confirmed with our um architect and the engineers that that's likely not the best choice for screening the IV on the building. So we're going to remove that. Um you'll
66. 1:15:22see that little dominance got it. So this is current. Um, we also talked to our engineers about the combination of a burm and vegetation on the north side of the property. That's possible. We can do a 9- FFT BM with vegetation on top, which is fairly significant. Um, the problem with the east side of the property, we realize, is you can imagine picture sort of a pyramid. The taller the BM, the wider base has to be. There's not enough room between the property boundary and the retention the retention pond to put a BM. So we went back to the landscape architects to say is there some more substantial vegetation that we could put here the lack of BM. Um that's what's described in the um the plan now is to put at start you know significantly taller trees than you typically would put and allowed to grow for vegetative screening. They're going to go in fairly tall. Um so they'll provide the same amount of coverage as the burm and more immature trees would have. But do they provide the same noise mitigation that the burm would? So
67. 1:16:35my understanding from and Christian step if I mischaracterize but my understanding was that even without the burm and the vegetation the operations meet the code um and are even operations are even less than the ambient noise at the railroad crossing. So my understanding was that the urban vegetation was just sort of belt suspenders but wasn't necessary mitigation to reduce noise impacts. Um it would reduce noise impacts but wasn't sort of necessary to retain complian. And Christian if I mischaracterize that please I don't know if you did mischaracterize that. Is there a way of elongating that detention pond instead of keeping it so squat to to get you that area? Yeah. Um, you know, one thing that we were talking about, would it be possible? Would you want to come down to the site and take a look at it and we could talk about sort of what we could do there because I don't want to like come back with another thing and then have to go back because there's kind of a few ideas and for our purposes, we just want to make
68. 1:17:40sure that we don't add net bill. Yeah. The retention pond is square, rectangular, longer and narrower to give yourself enough room. Yeah. Um, but one thing that they had asked fire when they were looking at it would be helpful to have you there if you do a site visit come down and we can propose something so that next time we're okay with it, you're okay with it and then we're not sort of but it is something that we did propose but we didn't you know take into account how wide the base would have to be. Um but file um we based on comments at the last planning board meeting we had removed the slats uh which several planning board members have thought was I guess just me. Okay let's talk about that because no one slides in or slats out. So if the planning board wants to discuss that amongst themselves and maybe take a straw poll, we can just go off that. But why don't you take a straw to figure out who wants slats and who doesn't want slats. Oh, in the in the fence. In the fence,
69. 1:18:49you see both options. The slats again, for those can't remember, it's chain link fence. So they're just super oblong shaped. Yeah. Plastic slideins that go into the fence. Yep. Can we just clarify that they do nothing for sound mitigation? No. To defend my anti-slat position. Um, if you look now in this picture, which obviously this is currently No, I know. No, no. I'm just saying to use this as an understanding of the the the chain link fence has no slats. So, you can see through when there's beautiful trees there, you'll see through it to beautiful trees. If there are green slats there, you just see ugly plastic green slats. So this is fiveyear growth. You have some more tier 10. Yeah, right. Yeah. And 10 years. So is it okay if I slend like Well, here's your old windows. Here's how pretty it's going to be. And then this is a line of plastic slats coming up at four or five.
70. 1:19:57I think personally it will be in all respect. No one will see that they're plastic. It'll just look green and it'll look like the foliage from that from that distance. You're not going to No, it'll be obvious. It'll be obvious in the And it's it's it's artificial. It's um solid. It doesn't have it's not leaves. They're really ugly. I used into the top. The thing about it can provide a visual barrier in the winter months. We're in the northeast. These are in the trees. They're leaving right now. They're not coming back till May. And the slats provide that break. Is there another kind of fence? Yeah. Take a look. See that? What about a pretty wooden? That's what the slats look like. No, that would end up that that picture is what the slides will look like over there. Yeah, we saw it. Yeah, that was passed around at the last meeting. Yeah. So, they there's a mix,
71. 1:21:08but you can do you could do what's what's the um you could weather the proof like a deck like a fence on a deck. It wouldn't have to deteriorate. You can you can um have wood and I think it aesthetically be much more pleasing than a fence period than a metal fence period. Although noise and it would be a little bit of noise mitigation I think. That's right. I hear another hearing a lot of great on that we can go with. I think the slats were basically for the visual. Correct. Right. And we will take care of noise repression comes down without being burm and vegetation. But but the slats are whatever size they are 3 in 4 in by 8 ft. Yeah. That'll mitigate some of the noise. It has to because it's solid. I thought it would. It's not it's not an open fence. It's got an engineer here on the right. Yeah. I could talk to my sound guy. Yeah. But I would imagine the same thing Gene did that it would block some of the sound. Yeah. It give us something to bounce off of. Okay. So to be clear as you saw and
72. 1:22:16Christian your view of the can currently do we want slats? If everybody turn to tell you the truth just look at figure five and six without the slats. But I do know what and I think you can see the starkness of the rusted metal fence. What do you want? Huh? The existing. Yeah, the existing. Go to figure five and six. And you can see that that's that's not visually appealing. I mean, I see the trees behind it. I don't see the fence. But this is just a difference of opinion. Yes, it is. To be fair, a chain link fence around a commercial property. Right. Right. It's not a home. It's not a home. If they replace the entire fence with black, that might help. Okay. Especially the black vinyl. Black inserts, you mean? Instead of black fence, the whole fence. Black chain fence can disappear more
73. 1:23:25than the silver one. Well, I mean, with I'm going to ask, do we want slack? We're going to vote on it. Yes. No down. Okay. No. Um. Yes. Yes. At the end. You know, I really don't have This is once I really don't have an opinion. I I have to tell you on that. I mean, if it's going to mitigate some uh some sound, if we we if we know that um then I'm for it and and visual, you know, um it's not going to hurt anything, that's for sure. Just the eyes. Your eyes. But um how about you? And I say slats. So it's two no and five. Yes. So slats. Yeah. Let's go. Next thing. Just leave it. Please. Please. Just leave it. Slats. Yes. What are you green or black? Green. The green.
74. 1:24:35Green happens. Would you ask us if it's green? Green. I like green. Green. And I think they have brown in that, too. All right. Okay. Cool. Green. Green. Yeah, that's what we like. The green. Say yes or no. We're gonna vote on color now. Yeah. Vote on color. Okay. Go ahead. Color. Green or black? Brown. For maybe whatever. Pink. Black. Black. Yeah. Random. I like I like black slats, but I can live with green. But I I think black is Well, over slap. Yeah, I passed over because you have no slack. I mean, do they get to vote on? Yes, they get to vote on Oh, I'm so sorry. I apologize. So, you do get to vote on They said no. And then I didn't figured they didn't want to vote on the color. Okay. So, what color? If you say black, what do you say? Uh I I really Yeah. Which is going to be less intrusive? The green, the black, or the brown? The green. The The black. I like the So the wrong one on this one. I like green.
75. 1:25:46Okay. So is how many greens? The other day. Black. I'm going brown. Black. I open my We have three black. Green. Actually, I will vote black because I think the green will just look weird against natural green. So, I think black No, it's four black and three greens. Okay, so it's black. I'm hungry. Hey, got that out. Um wasn't an option. Maybe red, white, and blue. Um the other meeting that we wanted to address was uh having a structural report done on the salt building structural engineer down for site visit. Um we were hoping for the structural report prior to this meeting but they're still finalizing it once it's finalized. We'll submit pretty well in advance of the next meeting so you guys can take a look at that as well. But if you took that building down that would it right now that building help mitigate sound. Am I right? Sound and sight. Correct. The structural report was to determine whether the structure is in adequate condition or its current use.
76. 1:26:53Which is the storage. Yeah. It it wasn't and it will not say hyperbal discussions with them. They said it's just a sound structural building. It's built like a fortress. They may have some maintenance items for us to look at, but that'll come in the report because we've been Okay. Sorry. Can I come back to the slides? I'm just looking at the picture and see. No, no, no. But it's a huge it's going to be a huge impact. Can we just see Wouldn't it be so easy just to see the difference between green and black? Like isn't it like one click of a computer? Um we kind of made our decision to black and you chose black. Yeah, you chose black. I'm having a I thought we have the moment. This is an entire stretch of the black one with black and one with green. I think they're looking for some decisive definitive answers. I think was it for black? I thought Okay. No. Dr. You said green or black? I said asking if the board want to request a visual. No. Do y'all want to request a visual of the colors? Oh, come on.
77. 1:28:02Yes. Well, it's not it's a big deal. Okay. We're going to take a vote on it. Imagine this is all here. No. What? No. Okay. marker. Um, no. I'm just already hopping back, I guess. So, yes. Okay. Um, visual. Do you want a visual? Yes or no. If you can give us a visual, fine. Not there. It's not necessary for me. Yes. No. Sure. It's not necessary. Okay. I say no. So, it's two nos and the rest. If you can't do it, that means a visual of the of Well, we voted on the black, so that means we'll have to vote again if we don't like the black. The last time we hit the buttons was $45, right? I like the keep that in mind. Yeah, it shouldn't be that much. Yeah, this I don't do it right now. This is a pretty big deal. Gina and I say no. The rest of the board is saying if you can bring it, but you're saying it's an expense to it. We'll check it. Okay. Okay. Every time a color rendering, it's real. So if you can do it, if you if you come
78. 1:29:11back and say it's extra cost, then no. Okay. What's next? How about the lighting? Did you do the lighting? They're going to submit the lighting. And I know Rand asked for one of the officials from the park. If it was situation, they'll have to imagine that the tower will be taken down. Wait a minute. Hold it. Let's get Yeah, always for everybody trees that still remain the same without the product.
79. 1:30:29still you said that okay the bar is the next figure do you have figure nine is without and figure 10 is with So just to recap, you said that you could potentially have what you eight. Was it six or eight? Six units. This is the rendering. So going from 9 to 10, this is three out. Right. Right. We talked about six out. Are they next? But you said you have up to six. It was three. And then behind those three further than three out there are restrictions on navigability in New York State. Shipping channel. Anything that blocks that is infringing on interstate commerce and violation of
80. 1:31:37So you can count each one of those as two two. There's one behind the compound, right? That means so if I'm looking for 1 2 3 I count 2 4 6. That's what I'm saying. 7 8 9. This is just a show. Exactly. Exactly. You can't go any further than stage. Right. Well, when you say 7 89, can they go three? Oh, three row. You can only you can only do two rows back, right? You could couldn't do a third depending on this was created. Rainbow had a thought that we would obstruct the lighthouse with the three. So we wanted to show and this is from the gazebo right in the center of the park. Right. So it is possible if you were standing more like here looking out. Yeah. If you wanted in the water in that inite you could obstruct. Right. And is this about 100 ft out? 305, right? So that's about 100.
81. 1:32:44But there is a limit on how far you can stage things. Any mar? No. Any questions about this? Well, on the subject of marges. Okay. Okay. But any questions about the what they are proposing to us about the um the maximum loan or amount of just like six that they had talked about last week. Well, no, not okay. No, but you just said I think the question was how many and you said about six. Sure. That's it. Yeah, we were trying. Yeah. Well, well, I I think this is all under the topic of barges visual impact and I was saying that there was a potential safety hazard for a kayak or you know would have have to go around or because of visibility. Your comment to me was that um because it was a navigable waterway that it wouldn't necessarily be under our purview. It wouldn't be under the purview of the planning board. You said it would not
82. 1:33:50be. It would not. Right. Right. Correct. But health and safety is and did it is it has come to my attention that you did have a an accident when because you said to me there's never been an accident. There's never been any barge issues. But over the weekend, did you not have an a a a an issue with a barge that tipped over and spilled gravel into the water? Is that There was a situation over the weekend where Colorado had to help and and Jerry who's there can chime in. had to help a barge owner move a barge that Alisa determined was not suitable to take on a lope at the barge. Um, how did that how did that gravel then end up in the in the Well, it was wasn't it was stone. Um, so the barge had holes in the bottom of the barge. Um, so Colorado receives paperwork on all the barges. They received the paperwork. It was all up to snuff. Um, barge came in. It was beginning to be loaded. We determined that this barge is not suitable just by the way they can see that it's sitting in the water. So called the barge owner and say this barge has to be taken out of here. Um barge took on water and then had to be removed by color so it doesn't
83. 1:35:00the barge sink or did it tip over because there's a picture of the It went over. Yeah. And how much stone spilled out? Wait, it just started to load it. So minimal amount of stuff. It was a pretty big pile. I mean there's a picture of it. Did everybody see the picture? No. It's a pretty big pile. I can actually bring that up. I think I did. True of what? Well, yeah. So, all government agencies with jurisdiction over the Hudson River were notified. The owner of the barge has to notify when they have to essentially come and get their barge. So, Coloro helped by pulling it to the sides the south of the operation like the loading operation secured it and now the owner has to come and get the barge. What guarantee is there to the public that other bar I mean you know other barges might not have similar defects or a similar issue occur where a barge would flip over into the Hudson. Well, you know to be clear the barge doesn't end over end turn over but just to be clear on record like yeah it slowly just sort of rolls. So it serves I mean it's the same safety a barge upside down and a barge right side up served this I mean it's the same for but it but it wouldn't be if you were a
84. 1:36:11kayaker that was going by it right if you were going by at the time in which the load became non-level and nonsafe sure you could have possibly been drawn into because if you know because you have to work your way around this I'm in a kayak which is a small craft which is what I was talking about I don't know two three weeks ago you could been impacted if you were near that barge when that accident happened. And it could be the same way, could it not? If there was a larger boat that went by, a kayaker because it also has a tide that and no, that's a a wake. A wake is a totally different thing than a boat capsizing. No, or or spilling, you know, a lot of stone into the into the waterway. Okay. I I don't when you say cap sizes I kind of let me give me a second give me a second because I think this is important to talk about for a second here give me a moment well DC was notified and west coast guard was notified immediately
85. 1:37:18and that's but it's not your your fault because you get the bar's ed well it is because they loaded the stone onto it not they didn't sink on its own. Let me finish. But you don't inspect the barges that come in. Right. In other words, you don't standard. You don't inspect the barges that come in. They're inspected by the coast guard. And you only know that they're affected once you start to load them. If they are defected, correct? Okay. That I just want to make that wasn't like you put it there or something like that. Okay. No, but but I'm also and sometime it may stop the operation because nothing could leave. I'm saying Oh, you going to pull it up? Yeah, I'm looking for them. Just give me a second. Looking at the picture. I don't see it. Okay, pull on Christian. Are you sure? Or can you pull it up randomly? Yeah, I'm I have it. Oh, here. I have it. Let me just find it. Oh, this Yeah, this is just Oh, yeah. That's not I know it it's not high resolution photo, but that's the bottom of the looked like. Oh, wait a minute. Hold on. Wait a
86. 1:38:24minute. Wait a minute. There's stone in the background. It's a rip wrap on the back of the ripper. This is my Yeah, that's not the stone. That's from the barge. And who had to turn who turned that over? It's on my phone. That's why I got on my phone which I'm using for this. Let me figure out how it is operation. Do you do a visual inspection before you load budget? Yes, you do. So, what happened there? Well, we can't see underneath in the wall. Oh, a visual of what you could see. That's where the paperwork comes in that says this. I don't this is Can you send me sir? Yes. Christian, can you send that? Cuz I need them on my I need them on my computer, not on my phone. My phone's for the is being used in the meeting. Whatever is Don't you have it some way you can email it to yourself? Many devices I have to be on at the same time this meeting. We do want to send Okay, let's let Randall No, hold on. Just email it to yourself. No, I can get I can get it. We're fine.
87. 1:39:34Let him get you know you don't want to register. I know. I need Yeah, I know. I definitely need to be charging for this. This is This is a lot of extra. I'm sorry. It's getting So, let me just And then um So, let this is Wait a minute. Let me just u That's pretty much our update. Um how often does that It doesn't happen that often, does it? But but in a comment, your comment to me just ironically was it's never happened and it's not an issue. And and and if it's a danger, you still haven't had a safety issue. Okay. It w it could potentially been a safety issue because whether it was your direct fault, the barge came here as a result of your activities. And if someone would have gotten hurt, then regardless of whether it was the barge itself or how it got here, it came here because there was a gravel loading operation and it was part of that. And if and if it had capsized, I'm going to bring up the picture right now. I mean the reason that it's an issue for everybody is that the operation happens to be right next to our waterfront
88. 1:40:41access kayakers do take off me and my family. So it is though the barge accident isn't your fault. It was an accident. It wouldn't have happened if there wasn't this induct youth right next to the waterfront which see you know goes back to in my opinion the whole conversation here which is how this is impacting our waterfront. So I think it's twofold right if you're coming out your kayak gardens here you're going to work your way around state at that point just like if there's a tanker come through you're going to move over. Here we go. Oh here we go. Here we go. And the entire Hudson River is open to commerce, boats, jet skis, their skate limits. So that so that is the is that's the bottom of the boat, you're saying? Correct. So the boat did flip over. Oh, completely flipped over. Right. So I'm saying so if you were here, you were a kayaker here and it was safe because you went by and you just seem to be looking at the barges and that thing flipped over, that could have potentially been an issue. No, probably. I mean, it's very slow. When a barn takes on water, it's extremely slow. It starts to, you know, it starts to
89. 1:41:52visually obviously not be able to take a load. Yes. But, but also, we we rent on that shore. We're renting to kayakers who are noviceses. You don't, we're not, they're not necessarily experts. They're people that go down on our river recreating for the day and maybe not having very much experience. And something like this. Now, imagine something like this. three things out, three units out if that was the last unit that occurred. So, it was pretty far out and maybe pulled down another barge because they because they're docked together. When you put those three together or six together, they're docked together. So, if one had an issue, potentially all of them would have an issue. Am I correct? That's what I No, I'm talking about safety and you don't know all the potential issues that can happen. So, to say that Hold this. Hold it. Hold it. One thing we're not going to do is argue among ourselves. Okay. That we're not going to have a conversation. You're talking, Randall. And when you finish, then you know. Okay. That's one that we're not running a vote like that. Okay. Everybody's got an opinion. Everybody's got a right to an opinion here. Okay. Yes.
90. 1:43:02And a vote. We're not having that. All I'm saying is that all I'm saying is that there I I would like to know more about what happened. There was a safety issue. It is It was a serious issue. And maybe it's hyperbole that, you know, I don't, you know, people could have gotten hurt. I believe there's a possibility, but thank God no one did. But the bottom line is that there was a serious incident on the dock on your loading operations that occurred just last week. Is that correct? No, I don't understand why. You don't think you don't cons you don't think a barge tipping over is a serious incident? What how is it serious? I mean, we notify the Coast Guard, notify DEC, they're handling it according to their regulations. I don't see how it is an issue. There's nothing in the record that makes me think otherwise. I don't I'm trying to help. I'm trying to understand why it's an issue. The tonnage of a this these bars, what are they? The 5,000 ton barge, 8,000 ton barge. That was a 1,000, right? Pretty close. Yeah. You know why? Because the way it turned over so Well, anyway, anybody else have issues with that? Well, I just want to say that in the last meeting we discussed uh thinking about these operations as if
91. 1:44:13they're operating at maximum capacity every single day. Right? So if this you know this is the first time this this has happened but there aren't that many barges there in a week as in a month and a year as there would be if you were operating at maximum capacity. So, I do think Randall has a point here that this can happen. If it were operating, if you were operating at 10 times the volume you're operating now, it would likely happen much more often. And so, understanding what the implications are, understanding what the possible safety impacts of this are, I think is a very valid concern. So, what what what are you saying is the um impacts? What is the safety issue? What's the safety issue? and Randall. I mean, unless any anybody else on the board other than um Gabby and Randall have a question about I guess overturn. Okay. So, Randall, you know, my conversation, my comment the last meeting was there were no safety issues. I don't see this as a safety issue, but in the end of the day,
92. 1:45:19you know, we're providing you with a visual given that the planning board's purview is health and safety goes recreating at public facilities. That's within the city of Hudson. Plane board has no authority over the Hudson River. So, we're not going to agree that permit conditions nor permit conditions can be put in the permit that govern anything on the Hudson River. I mean, it's interstate commerce. Okay. First of all, that's actually true. It is true. And so, let him finish please, Gabby. Moving on from that, this is it's it's not even Okay. It's just before you know the planning board has absolutely no authority to regulate that. We're giving you a visual so that you can see it because you asked for it. But at least they're planning towards time going over bar just over and over again. It's it's not something it's not a part of this application. It's completely outside the scope of the application. But how much you said? Yeah. Just but health and safety is for you to say to me that the fact that a barge a multi-tonon barge sinking or tipping over is not a safety issue. It's just the the regular cost of business seems to be dismissive of a real concern.
93. 1:46:27Okay. Any any boat sinking in the Hudson River, I think, is a concern, but it's not a concern of the city of Hudson planning board. But but it's a concern of the state of what's happening at the dock. Somebody now I have a concern about the statement that was just made that it's outside of our scope. If that is not true, and this brings me back to a lot of issues that came up last week, starting with the idea of scope, which came up in two separate ways last week. One was vested rights and non-conforming use, and the other was the LWRP. And I've looked into this a lot and I have a very different take on things than we arrived at last week. So, I don't know what time it is. Okay. But before we go, does anyone else on this planning board feel that this is a safety concern under our provision? I think I just need I need to understand, Randall, can you explain if if there was a kayaker going down the river, how are they impacted by a barge that's sinking? Like what is the explain the safety issue? Yeah, I mean,
94. 1:47:36how are we how there's nothing to what my but my my direct concern would be if you're next if you're next to a large boat that is sinking and again I don't know the rate of it of of what rate it's sink but you do have the potential of that causing an undertoe of as that boat is is is submerging in the water it will pull a small vehicle a small watercraft down with it but I have a question So potentially any barge could cause that safety issue. Correct. I I don't know. I I I don't know enough about it. I've never heard this happen. So potentially any barge there could cause that issue at any time in the Hudson. No specifically. Yeah, this is true. So how do we control that? What is your if this is a safety issue, what is it that we can do to to revenue? That's that and that's a good question. See, again, I just was made aware of
95. 1:48:43this for if you'd ask your attorney to give you advice on the scope of your authority because that there are conditions that you could put on the Hudson River. But we're not talking about but for us to for us to understand what conditions on your operation, right? for us to understand if there was what conditions do you think we can put on your operation like to talk about that okay I mean about it I can't give you okay does anyone else on this board I just feel that let me just let me just frame it I just feel like again I don't I just this just came to my attention just the other day I just feel like it's important to understand more about what happened so that we would know the extent of if there is a danger or not there may not be a danger what you're may be totally correct, but I'm saying you're not there's it's outside the purview of the land use planning board to op or to regulate safety concerns on the Hudson River that are not in the city of but this was tied to your dock. It wasn't just happening randomly on the Hudson River. It was connected to your docks and part of you were working on it. It
96. 1:49:49wasn't just a random thing that just happened. You were working with your conveyor belt, right? loading gravel from a pile to the you know to the to the vessel. So for us to understand better if there are inherent dangers because I didn't think there were until this happened. I think it's important to understand there are inherent dangers so that we could address them in a conditions or whatever else we can put from the land operation that feeds those barges. Okay. But again, foot conditions come out. I want to ask the question, what inherent dangers other than you was talking about the a kayak boat being taken down with the barge. Is that what you're saying? Right. But I'm saying, but we don't know enough about what just happened and I'm interested to have a report on what really happened so that we could better know. We have to make decisions on Does that answer the kayak? But let me just we we're making decisions basically on saying that we're going to allow 9,000 no 9,000 I'm sorry 923,000 almost a million tons of gravel to be loaded. That's that's the max amount
97. 1:51:00that you could do annually and that's what we're deciding on. That's not the max. That would be the maximum is 142 truck to the dock, right? But also, you know, asphalt millings come in through the dock, you know, goods and raw material. I'm I was just talking about I was just talking about I was just talking about now this that you're bringing up there with me more. I was just talking about the gravel. Tons of gravel coming from the dock. The 42 trips is doesn't matter what's in the truck. Right. Right. Right. But so, but the trucks, but the trucks is open outside of just Colorado's dock for materials to come in. somebody wants to move something like we did with the transformers and right to bring it up. So potentially so then over a million So then over a million tons I'm sorry. Yeah over a million tons of if you were at if you were operating at full capacity 142 trucks the average the average tonnage was I think 300 was it 30500 tons per truck. Is that right? Per truck trip. I don't know how much I don't know how much your trucks I don't know how much amount of material. How is that relevant to the application? All I'm saying is that what what we're talking
98. 1:52:08about is that amount of material handling is happening is going to be happening on the dock in which we are contemplating a permit for and I think our conditioning is really built and concerns are on health and safety and we I believe need to know more about what is happening so that we can make an intelligent decision before saying hey we're going to do this. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I just explained the situation. There's nothing else. I mean, do you have another specific question we can answer about it? I don't Oh, that's just is it that's you telling Randle I I you know again we need to understand how is this becomes a safety issue where it's under our jurisdiction to make a decision and we're not going back over this. I mean does I don't I don't I hate to give my opinion first but I don't see where it is but is there anyone else on the board that sees what Randall see or want to go any further with this because right now I don't see it. I guess my question is is if there is a safy issue and every barge has this
99. 1:53:18potential what can we do? We don't know which barge is going to have this issue and I I don't know they don't know either. What did they do? And I don't know how there's no other solution than say you can't do it at all. No, we can't do we can having limiting what so it reduces the chance still happen a reduction of the probability. I don't know if we have the capability. I don't know if we can change the 140. It's going to it's going to be a deci it's going to be a decision by us majority rule because we have difference of opinions so it has to be a majority rule. Okay. Um yes I have a question for Randall. Yes. You're renting um kayaks. Correct. Correct. I mean that was that was scenario. Novice operator. Well I'm not but people do. Yes. You said it does happen. Yeah. Okay. So, you're sending out novice operators into the Hudson River. Okay. A commercial. I think I I think we have a mixeduse waterfront.
100. 1:54:26We have a deep water port next door and we're going to do our part to stay safe and I think they need to be educated as well. In my opinion, it's that is not safe to take a kayak into the river, period. Well, but but you know, there's a kayak place there. And I'm not saying I I would do I have a kayak. I haven't done it, but I think that there are people who do that every weekend and I think they need to be educated of the deep water port and we're going to do everything on our part to stay safe and I I really want to make sure this, you know, it continues to move forward. So, if the board could give us some direction as to whether there are further questions on this or whether you're okay moving forward, our position is that we're not accepting if we're going to draw a poll on this. Are we okay with moving forward on this or just um constantly asking about the bar and safety issues? I don't see I don't see where um it is a safety issue. When I'm finished, I'll give you that opportunity to poll about whether we're moving forward. Let me finish please. Thank you. Okay. So, you know, because it's going to be a majority vote because everybody has a different opinion. Seven of us. Okay. So what's
101. 1:55:38your question before I start pulling? We keep saying everybody has a different opinion, but there is a legally binded binding zoning code here that I would like for us all to have at least some consensus about what we think it means. And you have just said over and over and over again, Mr. Graham, that we have no right to impose conditions on your operations. I have found a lot of evidence that suggests otherwise. So I would like to address that now. Okay. Can I ask a question? Is there anything that you're about to present? Did it come from any one of uh our attorney or No. Okay. Where's that information coming from? I did some research online using case law and New York State law and see that's the mistake that was made before. That's what we're going to let you. Yeah. But let me let me finish what I got to say. That's what happened last time when you the consultants, the attorneys were not using, everybody was voicing their own opinion. You can voice your opinion, but I'm just letting everybody know this is how we got here. So, go ahead.
102. 1:56:47Well, I'm very welcoming of our attorneys weighing in on this. They didn't last time, so I did my own research using the internet, which has an incredible wealth of information. And if anything I'm about to state now is wrong, then you make it be known and I'll let the internet know. Last time you said, and this is a quote, pre-existing non-conforming use is a const constitutional right. So no city code can extinguish your pre-existing non-conforming use, which is the reason it exists. So if you exist and they enact the zoning code, they cannot limit your existing business through that zoning code. All this did was trigger CUP permit review for adding additional conditions on the use not the operations which the planning board does not have perview over that in my research is inaccurate and I will read you to share that with your attorney but I'm not I can't engage I mean zoning codes can advertise non-conforming uses but it results in a taking of property. Our code doesn't amvertise the use so it's not relevant discussion. If you're saying, "Can a zoning law do that?" Absolutely. There's
103. 1:57:58all sorts of ways to write zoning. But does the city of Hudson zoning law do that? No. You're saying the city of Hudson zoning law says that we cannot impose conditions on the operations at the dock. Whoa. I didn't say that at all. You're asking about non-conforming uses generally. I we've I've already said multiple times you must impose conditions on the operation as part of the conditional use permit. That is what this board is doing. But every time we talk about doing that, Mr. Luan says we cannot impose condition. They say what they say. But we're not listening to he's not a lawyer. Thank you. But he's never corrected. So we're having a discussion. I'm not sure. We're having a discussion about what we can and can't do. You've asked a question tonight, but what can we do about the number of barges? What can we do about safety? And what is saying, well, we can limit the tonnage that they're importing and exporting. And Mr. Ran is saying, no, you can't. Okay, we're not going to listen to him. So, that's what you're saying. Let me finish my point, though. Well, that's the problem. I've heard that we've already agreed to 140 trips, but they have a different permit.
104. 1:59:07They requested that the whole road permit be separated from the dock operations permit. I don't know why they did that. You can ask them. That is so Gabby. So are the dock operations have nothing to do with what the Paul road permit has already approved. They can bring 142 loads of gravel to the public park to the dock gate. They can bring it up Warren Street. They can do whatever they want with it. But what they do at the dock, those operations are what we're here to talk about. And if we continually are told that we have no purview over the operations of the dock and nobody is saying that's actually not true, it makes these discussions go nowhere. We're going to memos on this issue. So I do take issue with you saying I've never told you this. We've had memos and we've had attorney client sessions. But it's not my role during a public meeting to just fight with TJ back and forth. Everyone here at this point knows what the scope of your review is, right? I mean, you can ask me, but I I just take issue with you implying that like somehow you you
105. 2:00:13haven't been advised on what this application. So, Gabby, what is your can can can you just tell us is your question uh to limit tonnage which will eliminate maybe the possibility of making a safer operation. Is that that is that what you're But is that the question? Is that right now? I'm talking about scope. So I last week I was told that the LWRP is not law legally binding. Correct. It's that is also something I would like to discuss because that is a huge part of the zoning code and the our the scope of our review is very different if the LWRP is valid or invalid. And based on the research I've done it is incredibly valid. Did you look at the research I sent you? Yeah. Did you? the statement you sent me. Yes. Yes, I did. And I did further research. Okay. So, I mean, we could have done do it now. So, let's hear it. No, we can't do it offline because everybody is very invested in this and wants to understand the process and when they don't understand the process that
106. 2:01:20they have a lot of questions that then need to be answered. So, I don't understand what doing it in private is. We can do it. I mean, I think it's it's well known that we don't have a filed the LWRP map because the people that opposed the project the last time lost the lawsuit on that issue, right? So, if they're in the public, the LWP was adopted by the city as part of the zoning code. Correct. In 2011, the map was I've been told it was never submitted to the state. Whether or not it was admitted or rejected is up for debate, but I don't actually don't think it's relevant. There is a New York State coastal map which defines the coastal areas of New York State and Hudson is part of that map and by default the LWRP's map is that map. So why is the LWRP relevant? Because it's in our zoning and you're saying everybody understands what the purview is and what the scope is. I was never told by anybody the LWRP was invalid.
107. 2:02:25That I was told last meeting. So I was confused by that in the zoning code. What? Okay. So So I still it was in the zoning code. So I've gone and I've you know I've talked to um the president of the common council asked to help me explain understand the zoning code. I've done an extensive amount of research and from what I have gathered and you know I I have a lot of information here that I can quote it is valid. What is in the zoning code is legally binding. So yes. Okay. So again the zoning law is adopted. The language in the zoning law is the LWRP language. There's no question that the zoning law has LWRP provisions, right? I think we can all accept that. Oh, okay. But are they legally binding or are they just guidance? So it's just like a district, right? The LWRP provisions are triggered when there's a project in the LWRP area. Yes. And that's a defined term. So when you go to that definition, the LWRP area is the area on the LWRP map on file with the Secretary of State. That didn't happen. So there's no LWRP area. So even though we have provisions,
108. 2:03:36there's no area that triggers those provisions. That's that's been the issue. The area is the coastal area defined as the area shown on the city's LWRP map on file with the secretary of state and they don't have a map. No, there's also the coastal area as defined by the New York State coastal map. I think I don't a coastal map is not an LWP, right? I don't know what you're looking at. I'm telling you that the Secretary of State does not have we we've checked. We wrote Secretary of State doesn't have the map, but that is not necessary for the LWRP to legally bind in terms of the zoning code. Again, let me back up. The LWRP applies when there's an event, a triggering event in an LWRP area. If I go to the definitions, which I just definitions Okay. So, it's article 13 terms defined, right?
109. 2:04:42Go to article 13 and then go to local waterfront revitalization area or coastal area. Define. It's defined as that portion of the New York State coastal waters and adjacent shorelands located within the boundaries of the city of Hudson as shown on the coastal area map on file with the secretary of state and as the lineage in the city of Hudson local waterfront revitalization program. So we wrote to the secretary of state when this project came in and I said, "Hey, where's your map? Give me your map." And they said, "We don't have one on file." Yeah. And I have we interpret this now to mean that there is no local waterfront revitalization area. So although we have a procedure for reviewing projects in a local waterfront revitalization area, we don't have a local waterfront revitalization area as defined in our zoning law. Well, I would like further clarification on this because much contradicts that and I I have the map
110. 2:05:51that you're asking for which is the state coastal map and there is a defined LWRP area which is the entirety of the city of Ptown which is in the coastal area. That's and the the right here it says it the state official coastal zone boundaries map and the landward coastal area boundary data set clearly delineate Hudson's waterfront as part of the state coastal area. These maps incorporated by reference in executive law article 42 and the state's approved coastal management program define the coastal area independently of any local WR paint map filings. Consequently, Hudson zoning provisions governing actions within the coastal area remain operative because a state designated coastal boundary area exists within the city limits. I don't know what your reading be that would be helpful. Okay. And I mean, is that someone's interpretation or are you reading? Another thing I want is not is not valid in the zoning code, then somebody needs to take that to a judge to have it. One of the things I want to say too, I mean, we can't just decide that the zoning code is invalid.
111. 2:07:00We're not signing, we're not, we're definitely not saying zoning code invalid. We're just saying as defined, it's not applicable to this process today. And one of the things that the planning board was was signed an attorney and a consultant. And if we have members that don't want, it's like taking fiction and trying to make it into facts. If we don't want I mean this is how we got here by not listening by not taking the advice of professionals. I mean we all can think we're professionals but that's why they're here. No, you know in a sense and it's question but it doesn't matter what you say. It doesn't seem like it's accepted. Okay. And that has to kind of be critiqued. It's okay. I'm happy to continue the conversation. I don't know what you're reading from so I can't comment off the cuff on it. I'm just I'm explaining what the analysis is that well one one thing I would say is that I do I mean I didn't go to the school but I would defer to the expertise of someone who's had a pass in New York
112. 2:08:08which is one of the most difficult things to pass in the United States I think apart from California. Um but I mean I have family members who are in the medical profession and it really you know it's it's It's disappointing when somebody goes online and there's a point of this, I promise, and they all of a sudden read some internet site which is dubious and not peer reviewed and presume to know more than the medical profession. So this seems to be what's obtaining here and that's and I would take a position of the chair that that is something that we may want to kind of worry, right? And and I'm trying because this is how we got here, okay? I've been on this board since 2020. This is how we got here by not taking the advice of the professionals. We are not professionals. We read, we interpret, we ask questions. Is there any more questions from any other person on this board um about the situation? So just very very clear here the zoning code that stipulates that the LWRP needs to be reviewed and that we need to the perview
113. 2:09:17of that this this the scope of this review um must include an LWRP review you're saying is not actually applicable is not valid. No, I'm saying those provisions are valid, but show me that this project is in an LWRP area. They're valid in an LWRP area as defined in the zoning law, right? But you're saying there is no LWRP area. So, I'm saying that that thus you're saying that the zoning code that says there is an LWRP area is invalid. If that's the case, I would love the ZBA to clarify that because it's in the zoning code. So unless a judge says we have to take this out of the zoning code, it doesn't make sense to me this argument to try to answer his question and not to answer the argument. No. No. No. No. No. Yes. We don't we don't answer. I've let the attorney go the LWRP and use it as a right. It's something that the city said they wanted. city adopted it. It's not uh it doesn't carry the force of law in
114. 2:10:27my opinion because there's no area that it is being applied to, but sure, you can look at it. You can see if you're consistent with the LWRP policies, but so you're saying that it doesn't carry the force of law even though it is in zoning code, which is legally binding. This is the part that I mean, this is what you're struggling with. Okay. Let's say there's zoning like districts, right? Let's say there's a green belt district and R10 and R3 and you had a whole bunch of regulations for the R3, but for whatever reason you look at the zoning map and there is no R3. Then those regulations while in the code don't apply anywhere because there's no R3 zoning district. So you're saying there's no LWRP district area. That's what I'm saying, right? And I'm saying that I disagree with that. So I'm asking if there can be clarification like does does the zoning she's clarified it like four different ways. Okay. Do anyone else on this board need clarification? That's the problem with laws. It can be interpreted many ways and on this board we have to listen to her interpretation and she's given you countless different interpretations. The map which refers to
115. 2:11:38does not exist. So it's incomplete. Okay. We're going to take a vote on somebody else. I mean, if you look at it enough, you will see that this sort of thing happens unfortunately frequently where there's something that was there that's no longer there and and it's confusing and it's misleading and and we have a guy here and she's telling you what it is and then you keep asking her in the sense of you wanting her to change her answer. She's not going to change her answer and I I would look bad if she did at this point. change her answer. We keep you keep asking the same thing and she's answering it. She's not accepting the answer. And this is something that happens. You can find anything on the internet that's going to support your decision when you don't when you want to make a point. So right now I'm asking for a vote. How many of us you know? Okay. We're no we're not taking public comments. I'm just clarify I'm not finding an opinion on the internet. I'm looking at boundary maps. I'm looking at coastal
116. 2:12:47area maps. I'm looking at executive law. You're not going how many of us. Okay. Hold on. We're going to move on. Yeah. Okay. The reason that it's relevant in my opinion are moving on Gabby. The reason that in my opinion it's in terms of this barge conversation is because we're repeatedly being told like why is it under the scope of our in the law? It states very clearly that it wants to encourage and protect water enhanced activities like kaying. So whether or not the LWRP is law to me very irrelevant in terms of this bar and haying question. So that's my decid as long as we're talking about maps. I also found the map and I'd be happy to move on. So now we're going to the next thing. You can ask a question after we go to the next and at the end.
117. 2:13:55Well, we're talking about maps and the river. Why can't I ask? We've already said we're moving on. The majority said moving on this going. I want to get the next one. Okay. Can't run this board. I'm trying to ask. You're being disrespectful as a member of the board. So, calm down. Let's move on. Calm down. Why not? We've been told many times that the river is not part of the city. And I the city is okay. I can I can say that the city boundaries do go into the river, but that's different than having zoning authority over the portion of the city boundary in river. Okay. How is that that's I would like to understand that distinction. Okay. Why does the city boundary go into the river? That's gonna be bound for drawing boundaries go to Hudson go but that's different of the Hudson River
118. 2:15:03anyone can we vote majority to move on with that um with let's move okay all right So, so over lighting, um, we'll submit the updated life plan, updated landscaping plan, which we will do the black reverse green like the board if you can. Yeah, that was the decision. Uh, that you'll have a structural report. Um, and we hope that ties up the remaining issues so that the board's in a position to to act on the Are we all in agreement with that? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So we can move on to this. move on about the slides. Come back with every we want to move on to respond to the public comments. They did that. They did that. It's in there 70
119. 2:16:17best efforts to respond to material public comments and we don't I can't make them respond to every but they did respond to okay so okay so see you next see you on the 28th Yes. Yes. Okay. Now the next item is business committee report. Committee reports. Any committee report? Okay. Es given the project as well as they have since contacted us and asked that they have reduced the fire. We're ask uh Crystal Patel.
120. 2:17:27So I will call back. Okay. So okay, get back to me. Get back to us. Okay. And right now would you be willing to go to let the lead 5,000? Right. Okay. So because they had asked can they reduce it. So can we get a resotion to reduce the resolution for 612? I make favor. Okay. ID. No, no. Um Um Okay. Okay. I just want to say about the minutes. So we're not one of the things one of the things we have voted on when it comes to minutes that they are and not because
121. 2:18:40we now I don't have an escro report because priv's office did not send it to me. So I can't make a report on it. But the Bills Bills Barton and Martin and Ludas Judas put a J in there instead of Judas. Judas dated 1042 $6,960. Can I get a motion? How much was it? 6,000. $6,900. Yeah. Okay. Um, do you have to say for the record? No. And then another one RCP Rosson and
122. 2:19:52D 10625 $4,56. Can I get a motion to approve the bills for payment? I'll second it. All in favor? Any opposed? Good. Good night everyone. Thank you for coming. We'll see you on the 28th. Bye.

Timestamps link to the corresponding moment on YouTube. Auto-transcribed, contains speech-recognition errors. Not an official record.