Historic Preservation Commission, Regular Meeting

1. 1:04Does it have to do with the >> uh but I I do want to ask for the Good morning, Jeremy. >> Hey, folks. How are you? >> Uh, so far so good. How are you? >> Good. >> Are you uh in the city? >> I am. >> I I'm seeing a cityscape behind you. I'm seeing city type apartments. >> Oh, no. It's a fake. It's a fake one. I'm gonna just mute you. Uh Jeremy, >> you're good. accidentally.
2. 13:03>> Yeah, that was getting a little annoying. >> Hi, how are you? Hello Miranda's coming. I also when you started singing I thought it was my voice because you Have a time. Good morning all. Uh we're just uh
3. 14:39waiting for a quorum here and we're about uh we will start as soon as we do have one with a public hearing for the DN warehouse. Hey, let me just get the
4. 20:46>> Who are we calling on to deliver the presentation? I'm do it any way you want. Jen, are you projecting this? >> I will. Yes. >> So, uh just a comment. Uh we are opening uh public meeting uh for specific discussion with uh Dun Warehouse. We are not going to close the public meeting. That is we didn't give a proper notice to the city. The city is the property. Uh we will have this meeting and the meeting will be open until whenever certainly to the next meeting maybe the meeting thereafter. Uh because obviously it's important that the owner have an opportunity to talk about the project. Not yet. Just Just give me one second. Thank you. >> Can we do When you're ready, we'll do a formal motion to open the hearing.
5. 21:48>> Okay. Thank >> J. Okay. >> Yes. >> Uh I have a motion to open public hearing done and you are in favor. uh vote. Oh, it's unanimous as I understand it. There are any nay votes. Uh public hearing is open. So,
6. 22:50>> reminder to articulate your votes, please. >> So, just reminding everyone to actually say I record. May everyone say I >> thank you. >> Folks, how do you want to proceed? I will just make a a brief beginning statement um to reiterate some of the things that we said last month when we made the original presentation and that is that the gun house which is on the products and waterfront um has twice been deemed worthy of being included in the state and national registers of historic places but it has never been recognized recognized as a local landmark to um receive the protections that this body offers to historic structures in the city. And we have we were inspired by the fact that
7. 23:54that its future is now once again in flux. There's a new RFP out. What's going to happen to the building is unclear, but the need to protect it as the sort of one of the last remaining remnants of Hudson's industrial past is very important. So that's all I wanted to say. My collaborators here also have statements. >> Thanks Carol. >> I'm Ronald. Last month, I spoke in favor of designating the Dun Warehouse on the grounds as a surviving material example of Hubson's historic industrial waterfront and not a mere illusion to that history. Today, I'm going to argue in favor of designation in terms of a broadening of the idea what it means to be a landmark and a broadening of the constituency for historic preservation. Structures of many different architectural styles of different
8. 24:56historical uses representing the history and activities of many different groups are qualified for preservation on aesthetic and cultural grounds. The Dun Warehouse is one of these. You may remember in this context of inclusiveness your designation of Old Shiloh Baptist Church in response to the call of Reverend Ed Cross, a designation which I and others supported. Preserved and repurposed, the Dun Warehouse can serve an ever larger and more inclusive community and stand as a lynch pin of Hudson's revived waterfront. In its first goaround on the adaptive reuse of the Dun warehouse, the city administration was strongly committed to such reuse. This time its commitment may not be so certain. To the administration, I say if you want adaptive reuse, support designation. To this commission, I say if you want to make adaptive reuse more certain, vote
9. 26:00for designation. Thank you. >> Thanks very much. Other folks Well, my name is Matthew, but sorry I didn't but you know this is a very unusual circumstance. Normally the owner of the property is properly notified and present and we would respond to their >> just a small point that's my fault. It has nothing to do with the city not wanting to participate. It has to do with bill not getting a proper notice to them. >> Well, that's >> yes >> and makes the participants meeting duties. >> I don't think so. You're giving us information and the meeting will be held open till the city can participate in the next meeting. In any case, what I will say is that this is a very beautiful building
10. 27:02in a very beautiful setting. It's on the waterfront. It's in the parkland that you see it from all directions and it's an asset of the city, the people and should be protected. I think that all of you can appreciate its beauty and it's worthiness. Thank you. I'm sorry. >> Anyone else? >> Did y'all want us to go through slides? >> I sorry. I This is Margaret Morris. I have my hand raised. >> Yes. Uh Miss Morris. Um, >> go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, Margaret Morris, first W resident, also first W council member. Um, sorry I could not be there in person today. Uh, I am joining today
11. 28:05to speak uh in strong support of designating the uh warehouse uh and providing it with historic designation to protect it. Um, I think the point about its visibility on the river is very important. the previous um proposal for development was very consistent with connecting it with our waterfront uh and preserving it for adaptive reuse. And so I just want to say that this has my very very strong support and I hope that the commission will uh take into consideration it designation as Carol has already indicated uh nationally and provide and access the the protections that that uh identifying it and granting a designation locally would provide to it. So I'm hoping that you will support this application. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh any hands on I see that Lloyd has a hand up. Go ahead. >> Uh Justin Weaver, mayor. I just wanted to show up to this meeting uh to
12. 29:08represent the city and state that we are all for this historic designation of Dun Warehouse. Um we do have a charter with COE. The specific code is 169-4 where it states how things are supposed to be presented to the city. Unfortunately, in this case, it wasn't presented. Um the intent to make this building um a historic designated building. That does not mean in any way, shape, or form that the city is not fully supportive of this happening. Um we leave it to the board. You guys are the experts on what becomes historic and what doesn't. But I just wanted to put that out there that the city recognizes the beauty, the history, and the majesty of the building. Thank you. Thank you very much. Hello distinguished body people interested in the star preservation as my mom was very active very active.
13. 30:12It was a strong strong aspect of her life and how she conducted herself and she was always very active. So I Lloyd Alden Kenning wish to speak with strong support for this measure and uh I wish the whatever obstacles and whatever considerations that anyone city or this board or anyone has that's been withholding this is a bit of a head scratcher. So I understand things don't always go you know according to poo. Is that how you say it though? >> I think that was perfect for Yeah. So uh but sometimes if you really want something you just get her done. So or I mayor which could happen I will see that it gets done and gets done right away. And thank you mom. Thank you guys. >> Thanks very much. Anyone else in the room or Jen, do you
14. 31:15have anybody online with hands up? >> Uh, I do not. >> Uh, Carol, do you do you want us to go through the slides or what's your what's your thought on this? >> Up to you. >> Um, the you know, just for the record, um, the HPC uh, uh, site has the entire DUN warehouse application uh, uploaded online. Um, and I'm happy to send the link to whomever would like to see it. Also, I have uh the gentleman's uh eloquent uh statements and in support >> into that as well. Thank you very much. >> Question chair. >> Sure. City code enforcement. >> Is there a any type of a condition report on this building? Do we know this the structure stability? Is there any type of documents that a owner may have indicating that? >> I don't. It's been a vacant warehouse building for many years.
15. 32:18My concern is the stability of the building. >> Understood. Is there is there any Well, >> you heard the question. Is there is there something the city can provide code at this time? >> I don't know if I'm asking direct, you know, somebody provided. It's just a question looked at. Okay. >> You work for the city. >> Okay. >> Are you part of the city? >> Okay. >> That's not my job to have somebody do it. So, >> please >> um there actually was but it's not I mean it wasn't done yesterday or last year but when um the I think it was when Saratoga Associates was doing well it was in the early the early stages of the DR um when the where the roof was when that support, you know, that additional thing
16. 33:20was added to the roof >> to, you know, shore up that part of the building. There was an extensive um structural do some study done at that point. >> So, somewhere >> Yes, there is. Yeah, I you know, I personally don't have it, but it exists somewhere and I think if I go back to, you know, old gossip post, I might find the link to it. Yeah, >> the latest resource evaluation I I believe that you guys included was 2024 October 8. >> Okay. >> But I to your point I don't know that it has current condition. The summary statement is really limited to >> it meets the criteria for uh a historic uh >> Oh, right. Exactly. But I I think it's done and done. Sometimes >> the reason I asked obviously is to make sure the building is preservable. >> We can do all this and next thing you know we find out that guess what? We can't take this building. That's why it
17. 34:24should be, you know, part of that whole process to make sure the building is valuable enough and preservable. >> Mhm. >> Yes. Uh I'm not an expert on this sort of thing, but given the fact that this building is uh the the walls are brick, they are supporting walls of the building and the primary parts of the building do not show any evidence of structural problems. The only part that looks bad is that part that they had to redo. And I don't The stability in the building is probably quite good. It would have to be something to do with the roof or other cars. The balls do not benefit you anywhere.
18. 35:29>> Um, are there sites that are necessary buildings or battlefields and graveyards? Aren't they they fall under the jurisdiction of historic preservation? And is it necessary that the build as long as the building is able to be made safe? And if it were not, you know, restorable, which I I highly doubt that nothing was impossible. We just need to challenge the impossible that we may think is the case. Um, but I don't I fail to see how, you know, that speculated upon condition would hold up a designation cuz other things are designated that aren't necessarily pristine restored buildings. I would just say I don't believe it designation either. We could ask Victoria to look into it, but it it still it seems like a point worth
19. 36:32understanding if there was a condition before breast and it also seems clear to me that we can designate it and then we would treat it just like any other building in any other condition when it came before us for modification. >> Understood. >> Thank you, >> Matt. Yes, I would also point out that the previous proposal that was offered on reuse of the building, they did not seem to have a problem with the idea of the story and that it was falling down was not even imagined. So, I find this a very strange thing. Uh I don't think it's quite so strange. Craig is responsibility for all sart safety. Uh and uh he has the right to seek information on the safety of any structure. Uh that is a separate process but
20. 37:35kind of worth knowing where we're at. Who's got their hand up? Carol >> me. Um would you like would you like us as the applicants as it were to provide the information about the the structural condition. I think I can probably get it from the done and done people. >> If you if you can access an existing document, that would be great. Uh but I would also assume that uh if it's dated or flawed or whatever the city may choose to do on study structure, be that as it may, it doesn't have to necessarily stop our process. We're going to continue to have open public hearing. We're not going to close this meeting and uh we look forward to more people coming in and please responding. >> Lloyd, so I'm sorry. I I just wanted to be clear. I'm not requesting anything. It's a question of condition. >> That's all this is. And the concerns are future down the road when we try to
21. 38:40preserve and do these buildings. We determine at that point that you can't do it. And and I don't care what anybody not every structure can be preserved. And the only person that can make that decision is a certified engineer. And that's my point with this. We have a owner which in this case it's a video Hudson does this. And then after an engineer gets in there to start preserve and finds out that they can't preserve it because of cost and that is in our code to my knowledge. So that's why I'm asking since the city of the owner here if there was ever and has been recently any type of review just to determine is this building or s I hope it is by all means. I mean we never want to see that but we don't want to go through this whole process. Next thing you know, it's can't save it. That's my point. That's why I'm asking the question. I'm not requesting anything. I'm just asking that question in case that is an issue. And that would be directly to the owner of the property
22. 39:43by default the mayor's office. >> Correct. Hey, um I just wanted to say if we do have a recent um report on the condition of the building, it would be on the city website under the DRRi um portion of the website specifically under the subcategory done warehouse. Okay. >> Um every document is listed there. If there if there was a recent one, that's where it would be. >> Okay. And thank you great because exactly to your point and Carol I mean you guys are doing the work of the city in essence. >> So the city were actually interested in preserving the structure or the site I would think they would be advancing the cause themselves. But what we're not seeing other than Justin, thank you for showing up, Justin. It's nice. Of course, okay. But
23. 40:46I'm we're not seeing the city actively engaging. They're giving reasons not to because they have to follow a code, but I mean, if you want it, don't it, you just go ahead and do it. You know, some later. >> In all fairness, um, you are asking us to overlook the code with another subject. >> All right. Maybe I'm confused, but so >> if you want to go and do something, you're the code is stopping you from doing something. >> Well, no, >> I don't understand. >> The code isn't stopping anybody from doing anything. >> The code officials is asking a question. >> No, I got you. >> Oh, concerned. >> I appreciate that. >> Concern. I'm trying to answer your question that you're not even supposed to be directing to me. You're supposed to be directing to this commission. All right. But I will answer your your your question. The city is represented here. No, >> I wasn't making a question. I was I'm trying to ask the question official was here. >> So, I don't know why. Well, then okay. >> So, the question wasn't directed to you. It was directed to this commission and
24. 41:49it was a very simple question. So, it's not for debate. If you want to debate that, you debate it with the commission, not with the mayor's office or me. That's another conversation on another day. >> Okay. Can I >> The mayor's office is represented and the code official represent. So, I'll leave it at that. >> I was speaking We're going off on on private saying that if the city wanted to do this as the owner of the property, they would be doing it. >> And nobody's saying you're not >> that that's a view, but there's no basis for saying that the city is not. >> So I mean, just to remind everyone, the the city here is the historic preservation commission. >> Yes. And so in order for property to be locally designated, this commission must first uh review it and then make a recommendation to the common council who then gets to vote on it. So there's a process for that. You're in that process. >> Okay. Uh go ahead. >> My hand raised. >> Just one, Miss Morris.
25. 42:52>> Go ahead. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh, I do hope that the DRRI section of the city website has been updated with recent documents. The last time I looked, it struck me that it wasn't up to date. Uh, and I want to say that in my opinion, the whole BRI process, which includes warehouse, has become incre increasingly less transparent and more opaque since since 2020. I called for the current process to be open to the public as I believe it should be under the open meetings law that that responses to be RIP that that whole vetting process could be held in in the meetings to which the public is admitted. I don't know if this is going to happen or not. I hope I hope it will, but that's what I want to say about about that whole issue. >> Thank you. >> And I have two hands raised. Uh uh
26. 43:54Commissioner Barrett. >> Um yeah, I just wanted to say regarding um the structure itself uh and its condition in the application, it really deals more with integrity. Uh does the structure still retain its historical appearance? I believe that's all that's required once it got its designation, as we all know, doesn't 100% protect the building. it makes it you know eligible for grants and so on. But if someone wanted to do something and going forward it just proved that you know the you know the building was really say this building or any building was condemned or just wasn't salvageable you know that having its designation doesn't necessarily protect it. >> Thank you. >> W Margaret Morris. >> Yes. Uh Margaret Morris. Again, I just want to point out that the Dun warehouse was part was one of the DRRi projects and a million dollars that was
27. 44:57designated for the Dun warehouse in the most recent RFP has been redirected away and so I want to bring that to everybody's attention because the city's commitment to uh having historic designation is laudable. However, I question why the uh monies in the DRRi project were redirected away from the Dun warehouse in the most recent RFP and I want everyone to be aware of that because that is a concern to me. >> Thank you. >> Um Margaret being on the council knows very well why the money was redirected and that is because uh the dumb and dunk folks cannot come up with enough money in order to go forward. the contract had to be severed and if we didn't transfer the million dollars to another city project, we would have to return that money. So that is why it was redirected to another city project and Barbara knows that very well from getting exactly to Craig's point. I'm not aware that there's any border to
28. 46:01vacate or any deficiency anymore. Well, I'm as a as a condition that would prohibit this building from being used. I don't see an order to vacate. Okay. So, I would think if this was like a a a structural problem, you might see something like that. You might see, you know, what other, you know, eviction notice. But, you know, you should look in to see if there's any such action on this building. >> I I I think I want to go back to the basic storyline. >> Uh we're talking about uh uh designation of this building as a local uh historic site basically, period. I realize that there's lots and lots of other things that could be involved and their complications, but they're all willing elements at this point. The city is interested in doing this. The preservation commission is interested in doing this. The public appears to be interested in doing this.
29. 47:05So, let's not uh propose non-existent barriers because there aren't barriers. We're just trying to move forward. >> This meeting will stay open. All they was trying to do was establish that those barriers may or may not exist. I believe they do not now exist. >> They may or may not, but we're going to find out at this process. >> I think that's a valid question. >> Chairman, can I just want to refocus everyone? The standards for designation of a landmark are set forth in 169-4 of the city code. Um and it's uh you can consider it whether it possesses specific character or historic or aesthetic interest or value as part of the architectural, cultural, political, economic or social history of the locality, region, state or nation. Two, identified with historic personages or three is the work of a builder, architect or designer whose work has significantly influenced an age. So I think we're looking at criteria one special character, historic aesthetic interest. So that's what the comments of the hearing when the public that that's
30. 48:09really what we should be focusing on at this point whether it meets the criteria or not. Um >> and we will Victoria that's going to be the focus but but people should raise whatever stuff they feel they need to. In the meantime, I would like if we can go to regular order business. >> Yeah. I I >> Victoria, do we need to do anything or can we uh continue? >> I have a motion to continue the public hearing. Uh do we need a minimum maximum? >> So, >> but you need a date. >> Uh someone with a calendar. >> Commissioner Barrett, do you you have a hand raised? Did you want to say anything else? >> No, I I I believe uh I I I made my comment. Thank you. >> Okay, take your hand down. >> 14th. >> Uh can I have a motion to uh continue this public hearing uh through the 14th? And if we need to, we can extend further.
31. 49:11You >> you and Brandon, all in favor? >> It's unanimous. The public hearing will be continued through the 14th. Uh can we have a motion to commence our regular meeting? Perfect. You and all in favor uh meetings called to order. First order of business is the minutes. >> Yeah. >> Have one question. Will you be accepting written comments until >> Sure. Of course. Always. Uh then the new meeting before we start the agenda, Mr. I'd just like to bring to your attention as we do every year in the fin when we get into the month of November and December's holiday season. City Hall is closed on two of your I think one anyhow. The day after Thanksgiving, >> right, is one of your scheduled meetings and the day after Christmas is one of
32. 50:15your scheduled meetings. So hard alter that dates to accommodate both meetings for both months. We will do I'll I'll get to that. No, you're absolutely right. >> I like to remind you that every year so it helps me and my office we'll do that at the end of this meeting and uh decide on the next couple meeting days to avoid conflict with Thanksgiving Christmas. >> Correct. So um minute >> I have I'm sorry one more comment to express will the public be allowed to respond publicly at the meeting to the presentation by the city. Sure. That'd be public hearing. >> We don't anticipate the presentation. >> I mean, there's no requirement that the land owner give a presentation. Is there a public hearing so that the HPC can reflect facts? >> But but to the point of whether the public should be enabled to comment at a
33. 51:18public hearing, I I don't see >> whatever the stimulus is, >> the response can be whatever people want to say. Mhm. >> Can we move into our regular meeting as we just voted in to do? >> Yes. The uh review of the minutes of October 10th. >> Uh motion to approve. Commissioner Bert. Uh Commissioner Barry. All in favor minutes are approved. Thank you very much, Jenner. >> Okay. Uh and we have uh three C of a votes. Uh first up is uh 337 share it uh 337 339 Union Street. That's the uh Italian unit for the partial demolition and new of the un uh non legal uh additions and new construction of a rear edition including wood clapird siding, 4 over4 woodclad windows, existing 6 over6 windows to
34. 52:21remain elsewhere on the structure that was mostly in the front and new six-foot fence with a 1-ft topper uh pursuant to the specifications submit submitted to the commission. Second >> 337 339 motion to approve the city by the city attorney >> commissioner. All in favor? >> I approve. >> Okay. Next up we have um 447 Warren Street. Um and that was for the fixed wall sign uh pursuant to the specifications of the commission. The wall sign motion still commissioner borber. All in favor of day as prepared by the city attorney. >> Okay. And uh next up is 702 uh 704 Columbia. I believe that was the
35. 53:26hereafter. >> Yeah. >> Um it was for the installation of a 36 in Oh, no that's not the I'm sorry. That's um uh Venus uh I think it's old Hudson. It's the 36 inch wood fence uh that they are >> 700. I'm sorry. It's 702704 Columbia Street. >> 16, >> right? It's not >> Yeah, it's from the church. >> Oh, right. Okay. Uh, and this was for the installation of the 36-inch wood fence. They're continuing the wood the existing wood fence. They're matching the existing wood fence. It's a three-foot high wood fence. 702704 >> 704 certificate of appropriateness. >> Anybody uh Commissioner Show by all in favor?
36. 54:29>> I unanimously approve. >> Okay. And uh according to the agenda, we now uh will go into executive session. >> Do we have uh any new? >> No, we do not. Okay. Uh so the commission has to note I believe the public meeting and to go into executive session >> for purpose of discussing uh architect members to replace uh him on the commission. >> Thank you all for attending today. >> Thanks very much. We appreciate it. and Miranda. >> Okay, >> we're in executive stating, so um we're going screens down. Um, okay. Uh, Commissioner Stein, uh, Commissioner Barrett, uh, if you would
37. 55:33like to, uh, dial in, uh, if you could dial into Hugh's, uh, cell phone. >> 917. >> Why don't we just Why don't we just kick everyone else out of the meeting and then just us? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'm going to kick everyone else out the meeting. >> I think everyone else is gone. I mean, Justin is the only one, but he has to be on to run the meeting, but everyone else looks to be off. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Uh there there are two folks here uh who express strong interest being part of the commission. Uh we need to get one uh temporarily. Uh do you guys have any step outside? That would be thank you shortly. >> Uh so uh some some background on what
38. 56:39we've been trying to do. uh him was enormously helpful uh in identifying uh I think some outstanding candidates uh for uh commission architect. So, uh, cheers to Kim and because, uh, Melissa Neil graciously agreed to step out. Uh, Cara is going to step in and, uh, we can give her a hard time, but I I hope we don't. Um, these are these are fantastic people and they're hard to come by. I've talked to many and we we ended up being very lucky. So, Tara, how are you going to do it? Let's say say a bit about yourself and your experience and then folks might ask you questions. >> Sure. I that was one super interesting. >> I want to say that that was not our standard >> very differently.
39. 57:42>> We reached some lows there like all sides of it. Um I I trained in architecture from email and um >> can you Yeah, sure. Um Cara um I have a mers in architecture from Yale. Um I've been practicing for 25 years. Um mostly like in a more international kind of setting. I was the director of architectural projects at the Google Map. said overseeing a lot of large cultural transformations and in fact that I really what you were talking about but um so that warehouse down by the river which I love but they were a lot of battle because um there were a lot of warehouses that were adjacent to Phil Battle was built and they got taken away by the really created the overall improvement that that that the project brought. Um, so I just relate to like, yeah, let's try to
40. 58:45clean that warehouse, you know. Um, so I had practice a lot of contemporary architecture, but I live in a Victorian house. Um, I was a student of Frank G's. I worked for him for 10 years. >> Say that again because that's a big name. >> I was a student of Frank Harries and for 10 years. I'm still 94 isolated with um but I have this love of the new coming together and I um so went to college as a winer so very much as the place I live across the river um and I love just sort of all of the um cultural transformation that's happening in um and it really really just being more involved locally in what's happening um So I feel like that's going to be the perspective I can bring. It's just um having done this type of stuff and I've also done this in DC, you know, working with historic preservation. So just all these different scales, but the opportunity come from having these
41. 59:48amazing historic buildings. Um and I just think Hudson's already on a track that is exciting. >> And I felt great when I talked to Kim. She was cool. like I related to her so I felt very comfortable. Um >> I feel like part of my sweet spot like with all the different things I've overseen um is complex stakeholders. >> So really trying to understand what everybody needs um and where they're coming from and finding new solutions solutions. Um, I've just worked with a lot of very big personalities and um, yeah, I just I think it sounds fun. >> Ask you. I'm John Scha. I've been on the commission with Phil and and others for about 10 years. And some of the work we
42. 1:00:51do, it's exciting like preserving the Dun Warehouse. Some of it it's executive session, right? Not so much. Sorry. Right. So, um, a lot of it is it's railroad and it's, you know, it's everything from approving a sign, sorry, >> to actually this is, you know, where architects are the are the most valuable. We have overseen to my knowledge three new constructions in um overseen approved right new construction in in the in the district and that is a very hard thing to do. I still this last week I got into a conversation about something that we approved 10 years a you know eight years ago and people are sort of mad about it still. So, I just want you I just want you to know that the time commitment I found this to be one of the most rewarding nonprofessional in other words non uh income earning undertakings I've ever I've ever participated in but it can get a little it can grind a little bit. Some of the meetings are like 30 minutes like
43. 1:01:54today what a mercy and then some of them we've had meetings that range to like three and a half hours at times >> and the architect members really important because >> who knows what's going to be on the agenda and who knows whether >> that whole time I felt super comfortable very confident I haven't even studied the step but I like I feel like I'm in the right place. >> All right good. I just I I'm really it's really more for you. >> It's really not it's not a question to educate your >> I of course for myself I practiced by myself for the last 10 years um very successfully but I um I don't have community here so there is something really really lovely about just seeing all your faces and being here and like kind of being involved with making transformation. Um, so like that obviously there's no income involved, but there's like meeting people and you know like that's huge when you spent your last 10 years on Zoom. I mean my projects have been in Abu Dhabi in California in Dallas from Sacking.
44. 1:02:57>> Yeah. >> So like this sounds funny. >> Okay, good. I just like and I think that's to me being a professional, right? is that you have like the stuff that you have to do and you get funds to clean that combination. I would expect nothing less from historic preservation in short. >> Well, we've gotten what you what you what you're seeking we I have felt like I've gotten in space in terms of community and that a little bit >> the TV show. >> Yeah. >> Folks online, >> Commissioners Barrett. uh signs. >> No, I have no comments. No, >> some of these details are pretty historic in nature, right? So, your contemporary work is, you know, I said to undermine your bonafetas. They're obviously there, but some of them are, you know, of a specific period and maybe require some creative thought and research. How would you feel about, you
45. 1:03:59know, we're within a very specific vernacular in Hudson? >> Super comfort. Like I feel like that's um like I said, I a lot of reverence for history and that probably comes from even like that masters um Bob Stern with the team >> and so it was really um instilled in us this kind of major reverence towards what's happened in the past and kind of then what's happening in the future. So for me it's there's a tension in between but like it's you're looking at a second and third Victorian um know what you're doing to not deflect from the value of that that Victorian >> um and yeah like it's something that comes up a lot too just with renovation versus restoration versus preservation. we can solve. >> We have it all here and we also reuse quite a bit of as you just quite reuse in the future. Would you um sometimes we have asked our architect member and more
46. 1:05:01frequently than perhaps we should to collaborate offline >> with with particularly that's something you'd be comfortable with right not >> I feel like that's the solution but I feel like I listen to that stuff and I'm like oh like we need to make sure fall the city all I see is solutions and so yes it makes me feel like hello >> you know because it's just opportunities leads to is the bigger opportunity, a specific one, right? So, it's sort of looking through and saying, "Okay, here's this like pickle to try to get through, but the bigger idea of what can happen for Hudson City is kind of embedded in >> our goal is both to preserve the the cultural patriarchy of the of of Hudson's architecture as well as to solve problems for people that own expensive buildings, right? So we really find ourselves having to thread a needle often and the architect's role can be really useful there without redesigning
47. 1:06:04for them but to sort of prepare the prepare the applicant off out of out of session for what it is that we most likely do. It doesn't come up all the time. I would say it comes up four times a year maybe at the most where we made that ask. >> Yeah. It's like it's really um I'm very comfortable with that and I'm very comfortable with yeah just being reverent of historical I mean Alana Thomas has those all the time you know sir Johnston's house in London like I just it's the underpinning of architecture so >> that make me comfortable >> incredibly comfortable please don't mistake my comments and questions for anything but to just educate you about what this role It's like this is to educate. >> Yeah. I just wanted to add to some of
48. 1:07:07the things that Janna said. I too have been on the commission for a long time, 10 years or more. Um, and I absolutely love it. It's it is a great community experience. And I think one of the things that makes our commission successful is that our approach to the applicants is very collaborative. >> We we um often people will come with something that seems really out of place and instead of you know disapprovement in the application. What we'll do is say you know would you consider you know what materials are you using for those windows? Would you consider restoring the windows? you might find that that will work and um that's another place where having an architect member is very very important because we need to know what's practical. >> Yeah, for sure. >> You know that's all I could hear when you were talking about the structure is sort of like and they have to reinforce the structure that is expensive to undertake and then have to do if it's a historic building. created a conundrum
49. 1:08:12>> and you have property owners who also know within a range have a right to do what they want to do with their property. So it's balancing >> for sure the needs like example I got that one Dr. So it's just sort of a sense of >> weighing pragmatism with the and like the partnership with the people which I really have been an architect on the presenting side many times. The idea of just going in front of a group that's collaborative and not combative is like awesome. We rely or relies on the architect a lot to do the minuscule looking at at the plans and say, you know, sometimes it's during the media because we get them, you know, a few days before and saying, you know, you didn't give us the spec and you're missing the doors and this doesn't look just right. So part of it is all part of it is the fun big picture stuff, but part of it is being able to say to the applicant, look at your plans and they're incomplete. So I understand there's
50. 1:09:19nuances, right? The code enforcement officer accepts the application and looks at it. But you know the details he he's not sitting there pouring over to say you know the >> yes kind of swinging contemporary direction. Um but our one responsibility at the beginning was I was the dabby and I had to review the entire construction which was thousands of entire specifications which is like like it was so boring and stuff but I did so I feel like yeah I can read and look at that kind of stuff and kind of >> yeah not setting hours before the meeting during the meeting I didn't find anything we're missing stuff like I'm not with other people with like so yeah I love doing that kind of stuff I do it
51. 1:10:21quickly I do want to say I do want to say because the code of our our goal is to make sure that so we approve something >> this this is to dubtail on why we do that right we approve something it goes back to code enforcement then it gets executed. We need to make sure that he and he we don't we don't get involved again. So we have to make sure that we have uh approved and assembled sufficient um material for him to go into the field and say yes this is what they approved and hold it up and then he doesn't have to do any guess work >> or um >> along these lines. It just sounds like you guys have been doing this for a long time. So just ensure you're coaching whether it's me or her about what you need from it. >> It's super it's not even a big deal. It's just I just want you to know what the what an aspect of what the architect >> does too. It's just it's always valuable for an architecture. >> I'll comment a little bit about >> try to be quick and brief. I've been
52. 1:11:27doing this a long time as well. I've always said very clearly to people that come to my office that have to go in front of commission. Anytime you hear external preservation, the stereotype automatically their lives become the beginning of the end. And it's it's like everybody cringes. I make it very clear. This is probably one of the best organized professional commissions I've been involved with, at least in my burn. Now, I'm going back my previous roles as fire chief and everything I've done in this building, my relationship with the board and and architect and one of the things you said earlier that made me like old to the new and new to the old because that's one of the most complicated things we run into as code officials when we're trying to preserve something that's old to do it in the new standards. It's it's very complicated and we've been very fortunate on this commission to have architects that were always adjusting to that. I I know when
53. 1:12:32I first started our architect back then, his big thing was about windows and it never gets its head again. You just can't pay a window that's, you know, 200 years old and think you're going to bring it to today's standard. It's just and maybe now you can, but ever since then, we've always had very good architects and it's a very valuable tool on this commission and that's why it's there. And it also does help me through the process when we're sitting here and and the board members may not know that. No, and you can't do that because the code doesn't allow it by law. >> That's where the architects reinforce that and we've been very fortunate over the years and very minimal issues in my opinion. >> Everyone, I I do need to jump, but I just wanted to give a strong vote of confidence. I I think you sound like you have an incredible background. Um, I was only going to say things that people have already stated, but this balance of
54. 1:13:33guiding versus prescribing, which is, I think, central to the role. Um, but it sounds like you have that covered and then some. So, um, you have my vote of confidence. I do need to hop, but, uh, thank you. It's great to meet you. I look forward to meeting you in person, >> Jeremy. Thank you. Just to note, everybody, uh, we have, uh, uh, another person to talk to. Uh, we'll miss you on that, but but everybody, please bear with Okay, thank you. Bye. Do you have any other questions for us? >> Um, no. I just think that the thing I would to be just your like help, you know, but I feel like I'm I also just love like I'm s like a lifetime learner. So like this kind of a little bit different direction. talking about that too. Um, and I'm I'm down like I said this the service antics this morning. >> I'm getting with us. >> But um, do you want me to
55. 1:14:36Yeah, please. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. I just didn't really understand what was going on. >> No, no, no. I'm so I'm so happy with it. I I'm probably could have organized this better, but I kept on going through it on Zoom. Should I do it? And it's so perfect you came in and so perfect just to be able to um see both sides. >> Super appealing. That was not >> Thank you so much. I mean I guess more about >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks so much. >> Yeah.
56. 1:15:37>> Paul, are you good for one more? Uh >> more. Yes. Thank you. >> So, wherever you want to be. >> Okay. >> So, the um good news and the bad news is we're talking to two people, both whom have spectacular qualifications. Uh, and I spent a lot of time talking to him as the Kim. This is uh Melissa Neil. Go ahead. >> Meet you. >> You have your your own firm and a crazy amazing resume. So, talk about your background. Folks will ask you questions. >> Oh, sure. Um I have spent the better part of my career working in and around um landmarks both uh for residential projects but uh primarily for performing arts projects and u performing arts have been my passion since I was a a young
57. 1:16:44professional and I will just point to one recent project. Um, I do a lot of work in Chicago and I 20 almost 25 years ago, um, we built a theater inside of one of Chicago's most revered structures, which is the Chicago Avenue Station that's on Michigan Avenue. And this survived the Great Fire. Um, the city is allowed to operate inside the building. The water department owns it. Um, it was built be in the late 1800s and has had additions uh through the early 20th century. And I was invited back um a couple years ago to add lobby space for the theater that we provided um for an incredible theater company looking glass. So I am very familiar with working with all many stakeholders um in terms of both inhabiting a building, talking to an old building um
58. 1:17:47and restoring it. And in this next chapter of my career, I you know, this opportunity is incredible to me because I would love to share um what I have learned over these 30some years and serve the community in Hudson um in that regard. >> So much more to say, but I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have. >> Do you live in Hudson? I'm sorry. >> I don't. I currently live in Sher and my house is on the market and my aspiration is to move to Hudson. So one step >> it's shared with Connecticut. >> Yes. >> So it's are you able to make meetings? >> Yes. >> In person? >> Yes. Right. Here I am. >> Happy to be here in person. I think that's the best. >> Of course. A lot of our work has to do with people renovating residential
59. 1:18:52structures. Um have do you have you done a lot of work with residential architecture as well? >> Yes, I have quite a bit. And so, uh, working in New York specifically, um, working in landmarked buildings, doing renovations and restorations for often single family um, clients, both uh, town houses and multi-rise buildings and and that really is our bread and butter that helps us work on the projects that I've described. >> Do you appear before the city landmarks commission? >> Yes. Yes. So, we're working at both a a staff level with New York Preservation Commission and also the Chicago Commission on Public Landmarks. Often we're in conversation very early. Um we like doing that so that we can understand um what's what's involved with a particular building and we love working with city attorneys as well to to try to uh find the best path
60. 1:19:56forward for any restoration or renovation project. Yes. No. >> Paul, >> Miss Parrot. Uh >> oh. Uh we can't hear you. >> You're on mute, Paul. >> Oh, unmute yourself. >> He doesn't want to. >> He's still okay. >> There you are. >> I'll give it a thumbs up. Now we can hear you. >> Okay. >> Okay. No, I was just saying I like what I hear regarding um your approach to, you know, particularly period uh architecture. Is there any any particular period that you favor more or less or have worked more or less with? It sounds like you've done a lot of like
61. 1:20:59maybe 18 19th century work. >> Yes. Yeah. Thinking about some of the earlier buildings. Typically uh these are 19th and 20th century buildings that we work inside. >> Okay. Right. Thank you. >> We we had uh and should mention that uh not all of our work is uh necessarily ambitious or or a true transformation. Uh many many applicants are replacing their windows and shutters. right? >> Uh they're installing a new fence and uh uh perhaps a railing on a porch. They are doing a roof and so on. And one of the things I'm very proud of for our work for a long time now is with the exception of one or two instances, we actually don't turn anybody down. We solve the problem. Could you talk a
62. 1:22:02little bit about problem solving because there there very different kinds of applicants that come in. There could be uh a quite sophisticated architect and builder with extremely strong and entrenched points of view >> on uh why they're right, we're wrong about uh any specific detail. And then there are folks with no experience. They're scared. they don't know the materials and they need a lot of help. Uh how do you intervene with and problem solve uh with the armory arrogant and the folks who need a hell of a lot of handholding? >> Um I think that beginning as a conversation with the idea that you're moving toward consensus together. I frequently as a problem solver myself I like to see our clients and stakeholders
63. 1:23:06really feel that an idea has come from them. So, you know, that of course involves listening and and it also involves uh emboldening the person who's who's just extending their friends um to feel like they're an active part of, you know, the preservation of the fabric of an incredible place like, you know, this is a not only a safe harbor for the great buildings that are here, but it's a a safe harbor for people coming here to make a life. So I I fundamentally believe in consensus building um first and foremost. >> And your uh question about uh workload and and available time. Uh as you can see we we do allow uh commissioners to participate in Zoom and it's not a bad thing. It's a good thing. It means that the folks who have other commitments or complications or are are still pursuing a career can be part of
64. 1:24:10the commission. On the other hand, we have to have a quorum >> right >> of uh of four. So, uh attendance is important but the the the workload for the architect can be ownorous sometimes. uh we approve through our system uh something let's call it 60 plus sometimes more we're at 50 I think or maybe 60 so far just this year uh so maybe it's 70 applications uh there's a follow-up meeting sometimes uh there's interaction with uh code enforcement because Craig has identified some red flags uh from the on on building code. Often he just takes care of those before the application comes to us. But some of them bring outstanding questions and it all ends up varying degrees bouncing back on the architect. It can be a lot
65. 1:25:15of work. Are are you okay with that? Well, I am okay with a lot of work just generally, but but at this point in my trajectory, um you know, we have a team that's large enough to be be doing the work for our clients, affording me the ability to participate in in community service like this. >> Perfect. >> Uh any other questions or comments? >> How do you feel about small tasteful internally signs and historic become conversation of the year. >> Yeah. >> Um, as far as you know the what the architect does during the meeting, a lot of times we look to the architect so it to look at the plans and identify details that are missing. um because we you know we've had issues
66. 1:26:18where we've said the someone has stood up and said I'm going to put in late steps but then the plan just says steps >> and then when Craig goes out to look at what was built it only says steps it may or may not be late and so we it's our job to make sure that those details end up on the plans and they're complete. So, it's a lot of at the meeting kind of looking and identifying is everything there are forward >> if that's something you're comfortable with. >> Oh, very yes. >> Anything else? >> Nope. >> Okay. >> Thank you. You're >> Thank you all so much. >> We are blessed. Thanks so much. >> All right. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Holy crap.
67. 1:27:26>> Sorry guys. So actually I do have one I'm always like here but I need to make sure she said she's in Connecticut. >> I just want to before you guys are you intending to make a decision right now? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Not necessarily. We don't have to. >> I just want to make sure that um a public officer can that someone from Connecticut can serve as a public officer on a on a city commission. >> We went under the impression you did not have to live in Hudson for this role. Correct. You're saying you may have to live in the state. >> I just want to make sure that the code is clear. You don't really >> we've had other commissioners who did not live in >> in the state >> in the state. I'm sure >> my problem >> is I spent a lot more time than we just did with both of the candidates. They're
68. 1:28:29bloody fantastic and I had no idea exactly where to turn. I didn't come and observe the differences in style. Uh but their credentials are incredible. >> I I'm stunned frankly with that. We always felt that there would be difficulty in finding the right level of talent. Uh we were a while we didn't have Kim who hard and soul devoted herself to reaching out to people and asking around and she met with these I mean the the the we had Kim doing this favor to bring us these fantastic candidates. I I've thought that whichever we choose the other should be cultivated and thanked because we do get other openings, right? Some people retire and if if they retire, there's no reason we could not have >> you can have another architect even if they're not serving as architect members. Indeed, some would argue you should.
69. 1:29:30>> So, I I think they should both be called and said that if another seat appears, which they could well, that we, you know, they would be first in line. That'll be up to the mayor, whoever the mayor is. God help us. Um, but the the um the vote early on the um the the the simple truth is that we it would be a great thing if we can uh keep both of them warm as it were. >> And I I think there's they were incredible. >> They actually are. And I and I didn't spend as much time as you felt, but just their pedigrees and looking at their websites just would blow you away. The only question I and I didn't think about was let's talk about Connecticut would be she's certified as an architect in New York State. >> Yeah. >> Uh I believe so. We we went through this with uh with Victoria. Uh when we reached out quote unquote license folks
70. 1:30:35uh they were either unavailable or uh not they didn't have the resumes that these guys do. They built extensive portfolios running zillion dollar projects all over the damn place. and they had someone on their staff stand basically and that appears to be happening all over the place in a wonderful world of architecture. So, uh neither of them are licensed. I tried to get licensed people and uh they weren't the same. Do they have to be licensed? I'm sorry. >> The code the code to be considered an architect in New York, you do have to be licensed, but the code is not as clear and apparently we've had unlicensed architects in the past. >> I think to to demand a terminal lensure is would be terribly disservice to the role.
71. 1:31:36>> Well, that's why in our world, we don't call them licenses, right? >> Certifications. >> Yeah. For example, when somebody says to me, they talk about design, we always we don't refer to architect or engineer, New York State certified design professional. >> That like me, I'm a certified code official. I'm not a licensed code official. I'm certified. And that's the difference. And I think the city's goal to have that is somebody certified make architectural decisions. >> Right. I I understand and I I Craig I I don't have an answer on that. I I know that these guys are good and I know that the other people I talked to wasn't. >> I would think this this lady here >> was the first business for herself. So that tells me she's probably certified in New York State. She has another but the other the other one has a practice and with a with
72. 1:32:39a she has a huge burn in her office in in the office in New York City. But with that said, she may not be certified. So you may be having somebody else certify things for her in my >> Yeah, there's the certification and then there's licensing. So you could have a certified architect that does your plans and then the licensed guy stamps the plans. There's no licensing with architectural or >> anything certified or >> I I'll be honest, we get people all the time that give me plans that are design professionals, >> right? >> And I don't even accept them because they're not certified. >> So, does that certify mean they can stamp a plan? >> Certification means that you get a stamp from the New York State Education Department and you're certified to design and review. >> So, that's the certification plan based on the code. Yeah, >> I I understand where we're at, which is I've never seen better candidates, whatever that >> but they were both grateful. They both they seem to be
73. 1:33:41>> differences that that I noticed agreeing importantly, not important, slightly different style. Uh Cara is is u uh got a warmer presentation style. uh than Melissa. But uh that's about what I saw. I I have no idea what to do. They're both great. >> Nothing out of it. Um appears before these types of forms often. >> Yes. >> So So does Cara. I'm I'm not going I don't think we can build a case on uh limited experience on sort of either of them or limited ability to interact with us or the customers or with Craig or they they both got that. I mean, I'm sort of looking at at at style differences. I don't see any difference in capacity. >> I would I would say you're right from a technical perspective.
74. 1:34:44second count Melissa may be like her her background may be slightly more aligned with the theoretical mission of what we do however I don't think it it's not material enough to make a difference and what does really matter you there's no wrong answer I will give a slight edge to the first candidate for two reasons number one close by I mean I believe her also that she can come from another I she's close by. But secondly, her the her stated reason for wanting to do it to build community is exactly what this board is about. >> They both have they both have sufficient technical expertise in the space. They both can understand very quickly how this operates. Kim did not know a great deal about this when she started which has been really effective. And um I would say that I would if if you were at you were going to ask me what I'm going to choose, I would probably go
75. 1:35:47with the a hairline hairline difference with the first candidate because >> only because she just I I think she'll have a she'll have an enthusiasm and excitement for this role. Maybe we should have asked Melissa more about her enthusiasm and excitement. >> I I I I have vetted that. I mean, she was willing when the issue first came up, she was willing to give us one of her partners >> with the license to the meetings with her. Absolutely. They both are very committed. No, no, no. Melissa Melissa has a firm >> right now. Cara uh I believe has gone solo, but Melissa has a major firm that she runs and uh was willing to have one of her senior people volunteer to come to every meeting with her in case we needed stamping which we don't but >> well I would just say of the of the me of the members that are here who are deciding we forunately have Paul we don't have Jeremy Jeremy
76. 1:36:50very caref versus seamless. So the only if I would not want to be the deciding vote between them because I would go I would go either way if the commission wanted to go to either one of them. >> Sure. >> Can you hear me? >> Yeah. >> All right. No, I would I would say between the two, my preference would be for the second one for Alyssa. Um I just like the sounds of her experience. you know, what her portfolio seems to present is really what we do more of here um as opposed to um Tara. But that's just my thought that if I had a choice between one or two, I would I would choose the second one. >> Interesting. I I think that with the body of work that they've both done over 30 years, whatever, uh it's a matter of which sound bites you got in me in response to questions. I don't think they're significantly differentiated in terms of capability
77. 1:37:53uh because they have broad experience. Uh Cara is slightly more flamboyant. >> Uh she's um she loves bread alone. She loves meat hook. She lo she has a sense of at least food connection. >> And Melissa I I really really like her. She's slight slightly more executive like professional style. Cara is slightly more informal and I don't know what the hell that all means. >> The one thing that I feel about Carara is that she has a real interest in the community aspect of what we're doing. I feel like Melissa would be, you know, fabulously smart about the details of a of a design, >> but I think that Cara might have an edge in terms of thinking about the
78. 1:38:56community, the appropriateness of a design in terms of the larger community. Um, and I I agree with John, the fact that she lives in Coxaki is a real skill. >> She live she said >> I >> you should just make the decision and make the decision. But I >> I the only thing is there is there is no difference between them and my we we just didn't this was not a proper interview where we gave them both a series of questions. It was not Phil you spent time with them. There's there's you said she wants that she listed her house that she went through with her husband. Yeah. I mean that's community commitment to me. So you almost there there is no um there's no lose here. >> No. >> So I think not at all. >> It to me it would be um to to have a woman who's built a firm
79. 1:39:58you can't there's they're so they're so phenomenal you can't really she built an entire firm which if you look at her pedigree it's incredible. She works, you know, she's worked with Robert Am Stern and with his disciples friend Harry like I I, you know, this is not this is really talk about taking this to a new level, >> right? >> So I think we should I think we should just I think Phil is inclined to go with Cara. I think you were slightly inclined to go with Cara. I I can I would go either way and we can make a >> What do you think? >> You're slightly inclined to car. Okay. Well, then let's do Cara. >> Can Can I just add to what John is talking about and more about what Miranda just said and I see it and I've seen it over years with everybody involvement with the passion of this commission. >> That's a very good point in my opinion. deal with what I deal with. And I know a lot of you folks don't see what I deal with on a daily basis, but when they come to my office knowing they have to come here, that's one of the things I
80. 1:41:00talk about. Listen, that board is very passionate to what they do and that's about the community. You know, that's my opinion. That's is my opinion. I have no say here, right? >> But I deal with this from the beginning to the end. You're the middle. And and usually when people come back to me, they say to me and say, "You know, you were so right." And I used to say that on all three of our boards that I deal with, not one. >> I mean, I think I think both of these candidates would be great. I mean it's Phil has done a lot of the heavy lifting in the beginning talking to them. They both came off as competent, passionate, experienced but uh you know and as John said and we didn't have formal sitdown interview. It's more of like did you say the right thing in this moment? But uh you know sometimes it's just a vibe and um you know I I liked how Cara came off. I liked them both. I mean, if it went the other way, I'd be okay. But if I have to
81. 1:42:02pick, that's that's my initial choice. >> And to John's point, I mean, I have no vote either, but you know, the the woman who is selling Sharon to move to the Hudson Valley or to specifically Hudson. Keep her warm. >> We're going to keep her warm. >> Oh, of course. >> Or make another We can make another board seat. >> Of course. >> Yeah. >> They're It's an embarrassment of riches. Yeah. >> For what it's worth, the Connecticut thing, this is a better choice anyway, so I don't have to worry. >> But it gives you but Phil gives us a reason. >> Yeah. >> For for for you know we just we some minor concern about your Connecticut residency and you know it's not it's it's not just qualifying. We'll hope you'll consider it. We'll hope you'll consider us if another seat comes available on our commission. You'd be really valuable. By the way, she would be valuable on any of our boards. Can you imagine?
82. 1:43:04>> Yes. >> How about on something like planning? >> Something like somebody that knows about planning. >> Let's What do we do? Do we need an official vote? Victoria, >> there'll be three. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Do you want I don't think we ever candidate. They usually kind of >> how do you convey the information to the common council or to the mayor for appointment? >> Uh we prepare a letter of recommendation with a CV and send it to the mayor's office saying that we humbly request the appointment of so and so. We are required to commission architect uh commissioner wood has been depart to seek her fortune. We ended like that. So when we go back into the regular meeting, you should have a motion authorizing you to send a letter of recommendation. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay, great. >> Motion to come out of executive session >> right here. >> Uh all in favor? >> Uh we've returned to the regular
83. 1:44:05meeting. Does that mean that >> we can close meeting? >> Commissioner Barrett is is here. >> Uh Justin Weaver is he's muted. But anyway, let me go out with it being live streamed. >> No, it's not live streamed. There's no There's no one on here. >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> it's Teams. It's not Facebook. >> It's Teams. >> But how did it get >> you from talking about the meeting? >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay. So, this is not on YouTube. >> I'm sorry. We We've uh we've uh we're back in the regular meeting. >> Yes. >> Uh I have your recommendation from the commission. Uh, city attorney question. Should we open the door so the public feel I I make a motion that we need to tell to prepare recommendation under >> Yeah. motion that you and I second that motion.
84. 1:45:07>> Good to uh prepare a recommendation to the mayor. All in favor? >> I will prepare a recommendation to the mayor. >> Great. Uh >> that's my story. >> I made a motion to the meeting. >> I second that motion. >> Just did any public comment. I apologize about any misunderstanding was you know apparent got a little confused because the city is the city and I know Craig works for the city and I'm just was not sure if he speak of the city representing the or what capacity you were speaking. She might be is a public. So in the future it be helpful to city employees. We hope that they're participating. >> Don't apologize. I we we have public meetings. They're important and could ask stuff and >> yeah. I'm trying to understand and see this position and it's not it's like uh what some of these other people said
85. 1:46:11it's our >> Yes, we did. Okay. >> Okay. >> Uh heard and understood. Thank you. You're a good man, Phil. >> So, we'll thank >> I feel like we did it. You're done. I just I feel like the first Thank you, Commissioner.

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