Public Works Board, Regular Meeting

1. 0:02Oh, no. It's six o'clock. All right, we're recording. I just want to make sure bring up the touchy subjects. What was it going to do with Right. Uh, as always, I just want to make sure that people can hear us. Carol, can you hear us? Can you confirm, please? >> Can you put it on the screen? >> Yes, I can hear you. >> Thank you very much. >> Great. Okay. So, um, as the, uh, chairperson of the public works board, I'm calling together the, uh, meeting for November 20th, 2025. Can, um, we have a roll call, Justin Weaver, >> Tyler Gman, Commissioner, George Crower, and Gary Carnegie. Um, also with us is
2. 1:07our project manager, uh, Brian Lock. Um, have we all had a chance to review the October minutes? >> Can we accept them as is? >> Make a motion we accept those. >> Second. >> All right. >> Brian, would you give us an update? >> Sure. Uh, I think since the last meeting, it's been a little while, but uh the biggest uh guess achievement is the work for 5th, 6th, 7th has been completed. Uh, I think I had sent to you back in with beginning of the month was the final pay application for the contractor. Um, one thing that did come up after that kind of ended the project, uh, the DPW, you know, we had done some work in the area of Seattle Place and Warren, there was an area outside of where we had performed work, but there was an area where there was some water pooling along the curb and uh, the contractor while he was still in the area, we met out there, we looked at some potential, you know, corrective actions that could be taken. Uh so we do have a a change order to add some scope back in to try to correct that as best
3. 2:09as we can this year given that the you know season's almost over. Uh it's about $3,000 of work which uh the largest cost of it is you know prevailing wage side of the work. So um the goal is to repave some of the area in one of the parking stalls to try to help the water from sitting next to the curb. Um, and that should be done. If it's if it's approved, it could be done in early this next week. I know the black theme is kind of wrapping up, so they're trying they're ready to start at work. So, that's what I'm going to talk about. Uh, the only other piece I know Justin probably hit on the CDBG application did go away. So, that's a good thing with the Burge. Um, I guess one of the things we can either talk about this now or if you want to talk about this under some new business, but at the last meeting we talked about preparing kind of a condition assessment tool for the board to have, you know, ways to critique and grade some of the sidewalks as they were walking around. So, I had put together a draft and what I had done was there are projects in the city of Hudson as well
4. 3:12as some other municipalities that we CNA has worked with and worked on. Um, and I provided some general photos and some description as to what you know what these items are and how they would be comparable to what you may see when you go through the process of grading like or grading an area which I kind of use, you know, going through school and everything, you want the highest grade possible. So, it's a one to four, four being the best, one being the worst. Um, and I have copies for the board. I I also this is a draft so if someone has a a better way to present something or thinks there's a better way to present it I can happily change something but uh I have a copy for every board members tonight um if you guys want to look at this and give comments feel free or if we can talk about it more but uh I do have that for tonight so >> that's excellent but in our case if everything is fine there's there's you know everything it's
5. 4:17in compliance >> I would I would sort of like say it's that's a zero so that was where the the highest grade you could get would be 16 so there's four categories one so the one piece that we did that so I included a general condition assessment so the first first overall appearance of the sidewalk does it look like it's brand new we call it a four. If it looks like it's a little old, might start to see some minor cracking or some minor discoloration that potentially could lead to something. That's where you'd have a three. Two is where you start to see crackings, falling, unevenness. And then one, there's there's a photo in there where the sidewalk is pretty deteriorated. Um the second category is cracking. Again, if you have large cracks that are opening up, allowing water to breathe into it, it's failed. Uh so the second category or the number two would be if you can start to see large cracks maybe they're not opening up. One is like early on crack that if corrected early on might not result in something more and again four
6. 5:21good-looking concrete sidewalks. The third category is deterioration and falling. That one's sometimes hard to gauge but the one of the big culprits from that is salt or chemicals used in the winter and usually once that starts it's very hard to correct that. So again, there's the levels to that. And the last one is ADA compliance. So if there's a trip or fall hazard, and that, you know, you may want to weigh some of those higher, but I did give some threshold, you know, greater than an inch, between a/2 in and an inch, less than a half inch. Um, and then there's some photos in there kind of giving some of those pieces uh for you guys to look at and potentially compare to. Like I said, these are just some similar projects we've worked on. So there could be better photos and if someone has one that could be replaced, I'd be happy to do so or simply provide the photos if you guys would just like to see that photo. >> I mean I I I any guidance in terms of our being able to sort of be consistent in our gauging and it's a comparative tool is good. >> Um but
7. 6:24I have to double check. I have to check but I think our focus is ADA compliance. >> So ADA compliance >> just that >> correct and that that may be true but there are factors of reasons things may not be ADA compliant or may become not ADA compliant such as spawning deterioration and cracking. So if you look at some of the early cracks, they may not be large enough to result in a elevation change or a change in grade or a crack decrease, right? >> But as they expand further, you you would have you could potentially have compliance issues with ADA. Um either from the falling or just the cracking in general. So they all do play a part into that, but again the ADA piece I think may be a heavier weighted aspect of it. >> Easy enough. >> Sure. This is good. Thank you. That's great. >> Anything else? >> Nope, that's it. >> Great. Uh Justin, um just the uh DRRi update. It's been it
8. 7:28almost seems like forever ago. Um where we were talking about the DRRi wrapping up. Um just there has been some communication that has finally happened. It is now in the hands of our attorneys. Um, we are still hold I thought it was 500,000 we're holding on to. We're actually I spoke to Rob today. We're still holding on to 600,000. Um, Rob said very simply, we're letting the attorneys um work this all out, but no payment has been made because of, you know, the um outstanding issues. Um, so it's being worked on. That's all I can say about the DRRi update. Um the um CDBG ADA sidewalk improvement grant was submitted. Again, we are going for a million dollars. We put a lot of work into that. Um I did get letters of support from Congressman Josh Riley, from Senator
9. 8:31Michelle Henchi, from Assemblywoman Dee Barrett. I also thought it would be a good idea to reach out office to uh office for the aging with the county um and work that angle. You know, elderly folks need to have um good sidewalks. We got a letter of support from Nina Benonudo with OFA. I also reached out to council member Dominic Moranti um who is uh with Independent Living of Hudson Valley. Got a letter of support from them just to really bolster our application. Um, we should hear whether or not we got the award within the next two months tops. That's the estimate. So hopefully we have another million dollars. Um, uh, we looked over the final, you know, uh, submitted application done by Leurge and we we all had to approve it before it was submitted. So, it's not like sight unseen. Ryan put a lot of work into it. Um hopefully we can celebrate that.
10. 9:35>> Um other than that um we just you like Ryan said we wrapped up the project. Fifth, sixth and seventh are done. I think everything looks great. Tackled everything we wanted to and that's pretty much it. Fantastic. Um, just a comment. A few weeks ago, I saw some individual, I couldn't stop and ask him, but he was down on First Street off of Warren and he looked like he was developing a punch list. That's the way it came across to me. I mean, he was looking at details and um, so >> I would imagine somebody wants to get paid. So, that wouldn't be >> Yeah, >> that wouldn't be shocking if you did if it was somebody from one of those companies. Uh, thank you. Um, okay. New business. First off, we do have that last invoice from um, uh, uh, uh, >> yeah,
11. 10:37>> Bosber that I just before I pass it on for bills to be paid approval, can I get a a motion to pay it? >> Make a motion you pick. >> Second. >> Do we need a motion on the change order? Now I if can I we get an agreement if it's under 3500 we agree with it sine >> well >> sec um Ryan and I talked about this and there's language that that was in the original contract that that if that it covered us if there are any change orders correct it doesn't need to go before the council the council approved the whole contract and in there there was a clause that said if there's any change orders to to the tune of what a few thousand. >> So the way we the way we we prepared our recommendation to the city, it included the contracted amount plus 10%. That's just our typical language for for incidentals like this. And I mean the project went forward with zero change orders that cost the city money. You know, this is a a benefit to the
12. 11:41city. It's slightly outside of the wasn't in our scope of work, but we're working right next to it. So, um I do believe the city would have to approve it. I just don't, you know, it's a small amount of money. The $3,000 line soon. >> Well, it's a change order that's current. I don't think we need a resolution for it with the council, but we need to approve the payment of the bill. >> Yes. >> And so, that's what I'm asking if you know in in advance if it's under $3,500 and it shouldn't be above that. >> No. So the the number we we the number the contractor feed me was 3,000 but it might come in actually under that. It all depends on >> I like a little wiggle room. Who knows? >> He he's fair there. Frank is very fair about when he's pricing something. Yeah. Uh he wanted to actually when he removes the material, figure out an actual quantity. We just kind of we measured it one day. I was told to take measure with him and it was a ballpark square foot. So he's gonna when he actually does the work it should be less but 3,000 was the number. >> I I I'll keep it at 3500 you know just in case whatever. So we don't have to
13. 12:43you know if we if we say 3,000 it comes in 3,300 we have to you know we have to meet you know and I'd rather take care of that payment before you know we let that go too further. Um terrific. Um I'd like to jump ahead from the agenda and look at the funding moving forward. That's a question. So, roughly I I I I wanted to sit down and re review this, but we've spent about how much in total uh in including the contracted labor or just solely like in in all total money? >> I want to so so the contract was let me take accounts quickly. Um the contract with Frank Fosper was 240,000. Um 141,000 actually. Uh the two miscellaneous contracts last year around 25 each. >> It's about right. >> Um and then >> let me have that. >> So that's about 300. I think there's probably around 80 or so,000 with CMA
14. 13:47between the various contracts. Right. >> So I I would say it's around the 375 to 400 somewhere in there leaving somewhere between uh 100 and 120,000. Justin and I had worked on some summary that went to um Heather. >> Yeah, I believe. >> Yeah, >> we also didn't include the grant writing. >> Yeah, the grant writing. I apologize. I did not include that. I forget. Um the grant writing I I set up a completely separate account um with Heather. So the the grant writing and we had discussed this at the last um because the way we're being build for grant writing from LeBge was this one lump sum and it needed to be broken out so that the grant writing specific to sidewalks um would hit the SID line um in the treasur's office instead of coming out of the mayor's $48,000
15. 14:49budget. So the total grant writing amount that we as the public works board are being charged is 12,000 total. Um so they broke that up into stages and I think I just got the last bill. So it won't go over 12,000 that you'll see for the grant writing portion of the sidewalks. >> Yeah. >> Um so um so that's what we've spent so far. Now we're bringing in about 300. Yeah. >> Um, city could use that money, but also I think there's still a lot of work to be done. >> Also, we have to pay back something, right? >> We have to pay, you know, I'm this is what off the off of my cuff and I'm opening this up on the new business is I want to recommend that uh that we continue we use the 300,000 for the next three years. I love it. >> Um, now maybe the grant is a separate, you know, that has a that's a consider
16. 15:51>> if we get the grant then then way out. Yes. >> Okay. You know, but at least that gives us three years to to do some some some substantial work. >> I agree. >> You know, versus, you know, 150, what is 150,000 going to, you know, get us? You know, you know, something. But um so so you know I'm I'm I'm opening that up for ideas, you know. Um I I'd like to say that and then then we phase it in um in in terms of payment. Um Ryan, have you had any experience with that with other municipalities? >> Uh I guess in which in which way >> in which and I I would expect we're not so novel. So would a municipality that would want to start improving their sidewalks lend from a a general fund into a specific SID type of initiative? I think the biggest I mean I can see that being a benefit. I mean the if as
17. 16:54long as the municipality isn't in a financial challenge. Um if there was a financial struggle with that money not being in the budget then I would certainly say that the money should return to the budget. But you're correct. If if you look at a you know amount of work that could be done with the amount of money you know the board would have it would be it would be reduced drastically if that repayment happened sooner. Um, and if you look at it from what we were able to do just in this larger 200 $250,000 contract, you look at what was actually done. It was not we worked on fifth, sixth, and 7th. We made I think we've done maybe 20 or so 20 or 25 intersections. And that's just curve ramps at intersections. So, if you're actually talking about linear projects of sidewalks, um you might get between a block or two or something like that out of that amount of money if you're going, you know, fifth to six thous. So, um I guess it would have the bigger answer
18. 17:57would be it depends on the budget and how much you know how money is being allocated. >> Sure. Okay. Um, what how would you gauge our chances on the grant? >> I didn't I didn't prepare the grants, >> right? And that's why I'm asking you. Okay. >> You're on the spot. >> I think did a good job. I I think that the city has a very good uh representation of why this grant would support city and why the city needs this fund or needs those funds. Um, it is a competitive grant. So, it's it's or does somebody have a I hate to say a worse story or a worse narrative that you know someone could see a reason to to putting work on >> worse story better narrative maybe [laughter] >> that that that is there's a rant writing you know uh the other thing that there potentially could be partial awards too. So it may not be the million it may be half a million or something like that. I do believe there was a there was a section of the application that did ask um could partial funding allow for a
19. 19:00project to contingent and that was yes. We've seen that before where you you may ask for the million and you get 500, 600, 700,000 and that's, you know, still better than nothing. [clears throat] Timeline wise, um, is there a timeline that the city asked for the first payment back? There's, I guess, the first question, right? And then, >> no, they >> Okay. And then the grant, the timeline for that is January. We talked about that, right? January I think might be a little bit fast just given the the holiday like I I'm not exactly sure how they how quickly they get together. I'm assuming it's more than just a single review. It's probably multiple. So with the holidays coming up might be end of January before you uh get something. >> And then our our first I mean if we're going to plan for our next project and RFP would probably go out early spring. >> That would be there there's two thoughts on that. Either you try to put a project to bid in the winter for construction in spring >> just like we did last year,
20. 20:01>> right? >> The hard part right now is what is the project and what funds are being used to cover the project. >> So maybe maybe so maybe what we do is aim for a small project >> and in light we do get the grant we can do a bigger project and pay the city. maybe something. It's not like we have to make a decision now. Those are our >> and it's not our decision. You know, we want to present the options to the powers that be, you know, and you know, they may say, "Hey, right now we want to, you know, we're going to use this money this year. Suck it up. You know, you got 100,000 to work with." I we don't you know um [clears throat] so uh but uh yeah we'll go to them and and if you're all in agreement um I'm going to recommend that that they you know waiver you know we do not have to pay it back for the first three years and that we capture 100% of the uh 300,000. Uh hey you know they probably will come
21. 21:07back and say something different. Yeah, that's a good starting point. >> Um, to just speak a little bit more to do we think that we have a good chance of getting the grant, I will say another thing in favor of us getting a an award of some some kind and probably a good award is that in September we became the 1,000th AARP friendly community. Um, and it got national attention. We're number number 1,000. So, we're on AARP's radar. >> Did you Did you use that in the uh >> We did. >> So, if they decide not and that happened in September and we absolutely included that in the grant application. So, if they're going to say no to us, they're saying no no to AARP, too. [laughter] Um, I have one other new point and that is um,
22. 22:11is there a way that we can motivate property owners to do the work themselves? >> No, we touched on this at the last meeting. >> We did. >> I haven't beaten this horse, you know, dead yet. So, right now we're offering a certain amount of credits. That's the only thing we got to negotiate. I mean to cut to the chase here is I mean because you know it's we we we but also they're going to pay less than we know and so if we look at it collectively what if we what is there something we can do? And we right now we're allotting um one/10enth >> for 10 minutes >> extend extend. >> Do we extend it or do we increase it? Well, it >> I mean instead of it being within the last year, >> they don't want to increase it because it's a it's a hundred bucks for the most part, right? But to give people more um
23. 23:15you know if you had the work done within the last 15 years instead of the last 10 years would that I think one angle you could do is you could add a section some type of language that would say you know you have 10 years but it could continue if it remains compliant or in acceptable condition and continue that credit >> so that the credit never goes away as long as they >> to a period maybe you know at some point I would assume the ADA compliance piece would hardly become apparent. You know, everything has a lifespan. So, at year 20, it may no longer >> including people. So, it might be a moot point. [laughter] >> That's fantast [clears throat] So, not just increase it, just as long as it's compliant, you don't have to pay that assessment. Well, that also that also puts the assumption that we're going to th this board or some entity is going to constantly be monitoring
24. 24:19>> that piece of side everybody's sidewalk for ADA compliance which a board of [clears throat] dwindling numbers um is you know and >> you have to put a year on it >> you know up to 15 years or something like that up to >> or you make the propert. You know, you say you have you could request an additional x number of years to be reviewed or something like that. And you know, >> so right now we're doing 10 years, >> right? >> Um >> which on a normal house that you know a typical residence would be $100,000 $1,000, >> right? So if we do another five years, that's, you know, it's $1,500. You're not motivating me then. And I'm not sure what would motivate, you know? I mean, I'd have to, you know, I mean, maybe just putting the knowledge
25. 25:22out there very clear. The motivation should be getting your sidewalks fixed so no somebody doesn't trip and fall on them >> because [clears throat] you're going to be held responsible and and reliable and that's where we got hung up on who's really responsible in the last meeting because I think you were you were saying >> we're responsible you I was going to clarify that I'm sorry I haven't >> do we have a number on how many trip and falls the city of Hudson have >> we we answered that question as well as part of the grant. Um and it was minuscule on record. >> I would say that the recorded numbers are probably less than the actual numbers that >> point that doesn't help what we're trying to do here. Yeah. Um >> I'm sorry to to your point about extending it. You can do it until for the sidewalks that have been repaired
26. 26:24and put into ADA compliance, you might consider extending it to a term that they were no longer in violation. Did I say that right? Where they Yes, they >> as long as it's compliance, you don't have to pay. You don't have to pay to the And that's the purpose of it. So it could be in perpetuity till as long as it's not in violation and you would task the code enforcement officer with enforcing it and make it a strict enforcement. So you'd have a two-edged sword. >> Yeah. Which never worked in the past. >> Then again on the code enforcement officer. >> Well, I mean with all the different projects that are happening in the city and new hotels being built, there's no way you can also throw that at Craig. Craig's a oneman show. He has maybe one two new people like manning the office, but Craig does all of that. It's I don't know how he does it. So to ask him to >> be the one guy that does all the code
27. 27:27enforcing and then throw that at them, it's it's a little >> the jogging, right? >> They can submit just like we did, you know, the application process. after their 10 years they could submit that I'm still in compliance and I'm looking for >> you know um if if you get Yeah. Yeah. >> You know we know that we would have to objection. >> Can I ask that we table this and think about it and come back to it next time to put some serious thought to it if there if we can create a motivation for a property owner say yeah that plus the fact it's the right thing to do and >> when does the next mailing go out for the water and stew? >> I don't know. I think Chie, >> what's your point? >> What? >> Maybe it's possibly we put out another flyer. We have something ready by then >> and just give them the details of >> what we accomplished, what we're >> Well, Gary did >> Gary did put something together and it has been put on the uh public works board page on the city website as well. So,
28. 28:28>> but that was an overall assessment of the >> but maybe we have it because most people are going to look at that bill that go on that page. What you're leading me to the point is that what's the timetable for the next submission of credit applications? >> May it was it was April or May? Well, the question would be is is that comes to the next point would be in you know at some point that Excel file that we created should be updated for new properties, new businesses, anything that's changed as well as anyone who's done credit or done work since the close of that which was I think was June or July we couldn't take we couldn't make any more changes. So from that point on um so there's been a lot of sidewalk work in the city that's you bet from you know June July period until now. So I'm assuming those property owners will be coming in for credit applications. >> Right. Right. >> Right. But you're going to have a bunch that have to fall off >> cuz we had a bunch that were nine years. >> Yeah.
29. 29:29>> 10 years. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah. I mean I I I like the mailer idea. I just think a lot of more people people are going to open up that bill. >> We're going to stay with the mail. There's no doubt about it. You know, take advantage of that. It's you know what is and one of the messages has got to be is when the credit application is you know they start pulling those up to speed I think is you know because they got a plan too. You know they got a plan for these. >> So you think we shoot for January to get the big message out? Does the um veteran and firefighter exemption does that have to be voted on yearly or is that like a that's a blanket for forever? >> Um >> the veterans are >> y >> um I'm not sure about the firefighters. >> Okay. >> Um but that's a very controlled environment. >> Y >> um and I forget what the process is in terms of uh registration, but you got to prove it. >> Oh, sure. I was just thinking like if
30. 30:30that's another thing like if someone new became a member of of a department since the last round, you know, they would they would need to supply that to get the credit. Same thing as the county usually keeps track of veterans as long as they're included in their list. They not keep track. >> What is that? A DD14 form. The DD 214 is separation papers which says that I have an honorable discharge and that I serve, you know, kind of thing. Um and I you do have to provide that as a >> um okay so we're so next we'll also start to identify what we need now the veteran stuff and the credits etc that is all in that document on the uh uh uh uh public works board page in that overall you know this is the current situation but I think we certainly need to get the message out again in the mailer Yeah. I mean, just giving them an update
31. 31:31of what we've done, where we've come from. >> Yeah. >> And and remind them of the the resources that we have in place >> and deadlines that are approaching. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Right. >> Well, we'll need to solidify exactly when that is going out, if it's going to go out in the very first mailer of January. And there there needs to be a lot of coordination with that because that kind of just happened out of the blue and we were >> scrambling. >> No one else might that one page should >> there's a lot of conversations that need to happen. >> It's not just like okay we're going to put it out and there's a lot >> probably. Is there any questions on the outside boy? Yeah, just in terms of what you were thinking about in terms of encouraging people with the credit was there if if memory serves me correctly, there were 50 people that took advantage of the credit or was it that number correct? >> It's about 30 I but let's say 50. Go ahead.
32. 32:32>> It was not a big number. >> Yeah. >> So, and then the ones that are coming up to the nine years in the n year and that are soon to expire. >> Yeah. >> I mean, how many properties is that to look at? Like three, four, five. >> Okay. So my thought is if you go personally inspect them, I mean I could do it in an afternoon, right? Maybe you and they are in fact still ADA compliant, you may wish to offer them, you know, the option of not paying the 100 bucks. It seems like a reasonable thought. I mean, the purpose is to have the sidewalks kept up. If the sidewalks are kept up, then >> Yes. and and you know and we neglect the fact you know we're all ready to give away assessment is a part of collecting the pool to be able to pay for everything you know and that's what >> the other thing is is that we have to follow the law and the law says that after 10 years >> you know so we can change the law um >> that's [clears throat] what I would think but uh you may amend the law in
33. 33:36order to allow for some flexibility for things that remain in compliance Yes. >> Then you take that to the you take that to the end degree and you have your property is uh you should be fined essentially because we're letting everyone who has a good property not pay and we need that one. It's like insurance. When you're looking at 30 properties, you're looking at 30 properties times what? 100 bucks. So, what's that? That's >> uh I can't do the arithmetic. 30* 100 but you're saying >> I get what you're saying. Okay. Um >> and you're looking for a way to incentivize people to do work to have the work or to keep it in pristine condition or compliant condition. Anyway, >> okay. We'll think about it and we mold that over our next >> discussion to
34. 34:38>> motion to adjourn. >> Questions online? >> We have any questions? >> Any questions online? It doesn't look [clears throat] like there's any questions. Going once, going twice. Gone. >> Make a motion we second. All right. Thank you guys. Thank you everyone. Always a pleasure.

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