Historic Preservation Commission, Regular Meeting

1. 0:54Thank you. Once we get this back in our office, Okay. So if you work on box. So this is okay without you. Okay.
2. 2:46Okay. Hey, Chan.
3. 3:06Okay. All right. I'm I'm going to drop uh you know, I just needed to be on to start the meeting. So, I hope everybody has a great meeting, a great Friday, and a great holiday weekend.
4. 3:22That's three great. Thank you.
5. 3:24Thank you. See you. Bye. Hi Phil.
6. 4:11Good morning.
7. 4:12How's it going? Always exciting.
8. 4:15Yeah.
9. 4:19Exciting today, huh?
10. 4:21Nothing too exciting on our agenda today.
11. 4:24I mean, well, we have uh we have motive signed and got some some news coverage.
12. 4:38I didn't think so much yet. Yeah. I I just want to tell people we we focus on the sign here for the sign and we don't do anything but significant. That was interesting. I mean speakers I didn't think of a way to try to shut down. Thank you. you all?
13. 6:45Hey, pretty good. Thank you.
14. 6:49I am super delighted. Something something general area. Super
15. 6:57okay. and we'll see how the meeting go after we be very about it. that signs agenda.
16. 8:05I usually do um this morning.
17. 8:10Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I usually do. Unless I did yesterday.
18. 8:18No, I know. He just doesn't get it on his city.
19. 8:21Paul, we need to fix that. I'll I'll let me help you fix that. if you want it fixed.
20. 8:28Yes, that's that's the other possibility.
21. 8:32I also lost my city of mail.
22. 8:35Okay, but uh they sent me a We'll deal with it another time.
23. 8:43You have Do you receive Hudson first? I have Foreman Phillip atgmail. Do you want me to send it there?
24. 8:49Yeah, that would be great. Mhm.
25. 8:52And then Paul, do you want me to send it a pop mail?
26. 8:55Yes, please.
27. 9:03I was up and running. It was and it dropped down. What I would do is
28. 9:44good. I think the reason we came to it here the way that my mom wanted this spell.
29. 9:52Yeah. I think that Okay. So this spelling is so perfect.
30. 10:12Yeah, it should be.
31. 10:14Yeah. Uh good morning all online. Uh we're just waiting for a quorum and we will start momentarily. We like the meeting called to order. We have a quorum. I'll do a quick head to make sure that quorum is for real.
32. 17:04Ear Paul Barrett Jeremy Stein.
33. 17:08Terrific. So we got four which is right on the line but it is a quorum. Meetings go broader.
34. 17:14Wonderful. Thank you. Uh 10 of two start with uh the review of the minutes uh uh May 8th, the draft minutes of May 8th.
35. 17:26Make a motion.
36. 17:26I'll second.
37. 17:28All in favor? Minutes approved. Thank you so much as always, Jan.
38. 17:32Thank you. Uh and then we have uh let's see six I believe CFAs.
39. 17:38You think you see a recurrent now, Jen? You reckon? Yeah, I I think we are. Okay, there's there might be a couple more, but I'm trying to archive everything.
40. 17:48So, appreciate you scaring through making sure.
41. 17:53Okay, first up, and I believe we have our applicants online as well. 337 339 CFA. Um, and this is Mr. Gala and the Gala family. Um, I just need a date this application. Uh, attorney Polydoro, do you want me to fill it out?
42. 18:12So, I couldn't find the application date. There have been a few revisions. Okay. And I don't know when the actual I don't have it.
43. 18:20I'll work with officer Fox and we'll get the date.
44. 18:23I did note we just got a new submission two days ago, but you should probably look at, but we noted that in the CFA that we said.
45. 18:32Okay. So this is the uh the CFA that's conditional on uh we needed more information uh about the uh I believe the window uh type the fencing um maybe not fencing uh the the materiality and the railing material. Yes.
46. 18:53So material specs.
47. 18:55Yeah. Is it the front porch railing that we're looking for? the three rally. We ran the three steps and the windows.
48. 19:02Right.
49. 19:02Right.
50. 19:04The front porch railing.
51. 19:05Correct. Yeah.
52. 19:06Okay.
53. 19:07The contractor just told me the other day to ask if they needed the front porch railing, which they may not depending on the um
54. 19:17That's right. So, so Nick must be there then, right?
55. 19:23Yeah.
56. 19:24Hi, Nick.
57. 19:25Okay. Let me share this uh before we vote on the CFA um with everybody. Okay. And um again, this was for the uh the home at 337 339 that they're uh restoring and renovating. So, first up was the front staircase. Um and sir, would you Mr. G would you like to take us through it?
58. 19:58Um sure. This is a rendering that we're happy with with um it's a Douglas first airs and then um you can see that the railing there is wooden. Um it's not it's not executed yet, but the these are our plans.
59. 20:13Good.
60. 20:14Okay. So, it's wood railings and Douglas for uh steps.
61. 20:20Stairs. Yes, that's right. And we're actually employing the same materials for the side exit entrance there with um with Douglas first steps and wooden railings.
62. 20:35And then finally, this is the rear staircase.
63. 20:38That's right, the rear staircase. That's the new door that we found. And that that'll be the the rear uh exit for us.
64. 20:47And then this is the window schedule. We had requested uh perhaps a different materiality and I think you you you achieved that or you
65. 20:58That's right. Yeah. This is the Pello lifestyle series with uh it's al aluminum clad so paintable and it has a wooden um interior material. Um and the um they'll be double hung with grills um in between um the panes. So,
66. 21:19so initially um it was speced for seven windows and this is six. So, uh are you restoring one or not replacing one?
67. 21:30Well, that's a good question, Jen. So, what we have is a different layout. Um originally we were going to do the sun room with uh four windows across. Um as you can see on the Yeah, that that one there. if you want to. So, the original layout was this wall with four windows. Um, but now we've changed the layout. So, we have two windows and a door there. Plus, um, if you want to look at the rear view, that one window there to the right, that's the third that. So, there are three windows there and not four. So
68. 22:12that's one fewer than
69. 22:14one few one fewer window, right?
70. 22:17Okay.
71. 22:18Thank you.
72. 22:18Yep.
73. 22:21Dan, were we able to get a date on that so we can uh process that? Probably the date on the app.
74. 22:27We might have to go back through it. Okay.
75. 22:30Yeah, I don't know what the original
76. 22:33I can see here.
77. 22:36This was July 14th. Could that be 2014? 20 to 25. Yeah,
78. 22:48here's another C day, right?
79. 22:50Oh, wow.
80. 22:50This was updated. Okay. So, this is October 10th or 20 24th.
81. 22:58Then we approved it
82. 22:59and then it came in with a new one. So, that was the one we approved for the defension, right?
83. 23:04Then it came back in.
84. 23:06That's right.
85. 23:06So, I don't know. So the date would be specific to this act, not on the not a previous act.
86. 23:11So I guess the question is did he submit a new CFA when he came in with the revised plans?
87. 23:17It was in the year, right? Wouldn't this year?
88. 23:22It was during the transition probably. So
89. 23:24it was I'm reading here this this CFA that was dated uh October 24th. I would I would have to go to the signed to the to the site to find the signed one. Is that what you're saying?
90. 23:40No, stop because we we approved that Ca extension. They did all that work and they modified it and I thought we'd approve that.
91. 23:49Was there a new app?
92. 23:50I guess is the question subsequent
93. 23:53or are we working off the original app and this is modification?
94. 23:58I think that we were working off the original app. Because this says the demolition and new construction of a rear edition 4 over4. It's it's new fence with a one foot topper. Well, this is specific to those things. Right.
95. 24:16So how would you like us to proceed create an addendum or amendment for that?
96. 24:23So I think the answer is just that uh let's if we if assuming that one is approved in October before the building permit is given to apply for the CA and pay the fee.
97. 24:38Oh paperwork.
98. 24:39I see.
99. 24:40Well he already has a building permit on this project. So that must have been off the original C of A.
100. 24:45So he just needs to pay the fee for them and a new C and
101. 24:49okay whatever it is
102. 24:50and I'll just Okay,
103. 24:51we've already on that part.
104. 24:54Yeah.
105. 24:54So I can date it today if I vote.
106. 24:59Well, so I mean can Mr. G answer this question? We're talking he knows when Yes.
107. 25:05Well, I'm just I'm trying to glean what you guys are are thinking about. So I'm not really sure. I'm I'm sort of waiting for the bottom line here. I guess
108. 25:15it it it impacts on on how the lawn the thing is enforced unless you decide let's say you decide to stop the project and modify and so on. So that the dates are can be material or they can be irrelevant. My suggestion is that we put on this Ca the original application date and the revised application date so that we can track it back.
109. 25:41Okay. So, so Mr. Go, when you came in after you had the big expansion plans when you came back before this board, did you submit a new application or did you just submit new plans? That's the question.
110. 25:54I'm pretty sure we did not duplicate the application. I'm pretty sure we would we didn't realize that we had to refile an application
111. 26:03because once they vote on it, it's kind of closed and then a new one has to start. So, if I remember correctly, actually now, um, when he did submit new renderings to me, um, I did ask for an application fee. Um, but he said this is just a revision to the old one. So, I and I got lost. I wasn't sure how far back or that there was already a signed COA. So, uh, it it sounds like we will date this from when he messaged me about getting back on the board from the revision. We probably pull it up relatively quickly. How about we for now we can say last revise March 19th the application date right? We'll just say last revise March 19th 2025.
112. 26:55That works. And then uh how about this application comma which modifies an application originally submitted on July what was the date something 2025?
113. 27:12Yes. October 10th.
114. 27:15Okay. which modifies a prior CFA issued on October 10th, 2025 with plans last revised March 19th, 2026. And that should be enough, right, Nick, to track down. Okay.
115. 27:31Uh I'm sorry. Issue 20 uh 1010, 2025
116. 27:36with plans revised on March
117. 27:4019th 19th. Yeah.
118. 27:412025. laughter bumped revisions.
119. 27:49Uh 319
120. 27:512020
121. 27:522026,
122. 27:53correct?
123. 27:54And actually the um the CMA was voted on 33. It was voted on on October 24th, 2025.
124. 28:03Okay.
125. 28:04Didn't complete that.
126. 28:09Okay. So it reads uh let me um Yeah. Thank you.
127. 28:16Uhhuh. This application which modifies a previously submitted CFA issue 1024 2025.
128. 28:22I would say previously approved CFA.
129. 28:24Uhhuh. Yep. Is she 1024
130. 28:31with plan?
131. 28:34Oh, you can take a part in um the parenthesis or that it's fine. attach your two. Okay. So, we'll just you'll have to attach plans to this the three sets. That's fine.
132. 28:47Okay. Oh, so and again this is for the exterior renovation including the replacement of an existing door, addition of a new, pardon me, rear door, replacement of windows and sun rooms with double on windows and French doors, addition of a second floor window, replacement windows, pillow pillow wood clad, new fencing which was approved already, but uh Douglas fur front side and rear steps with wood handrails.
133. 29:13So this this includes all of it.
134. 29:15That's right. Yep. Okay, Bob, did your contractor confirm height of the front is less than two feet?
135. 29:24Um, he has not confirmed that. He was waiting to hear from you, Nick. I think he was going to send you some photos.
136. 29:32Yeah, I think that's what we were waiting for. Um, maybe I can just swing by afterwards, make sure that we're going to achieve that height because I'd hate to sign off on the COA that there's not going to be any handrails and then find out that we have to have them to code. Well, the handrails are in there now.
137. 29:47Not for the front porch. It wasn't, was there?
138. 29:49Yeah, he proposed.
139. 29:50Oh, for the stairs. But I mean around the porch itself.
140. 29:53Oh,
141. 29:54they're rebuilding that whole front porch.
142. 29:58Maybe you can Can you We can look at the original photo of the house on that presentation that
143. 30:04I see that it didn't have it there.
144. 30:06Can't they just put around it to raise it up?
145. 30:09There's ways to achieve it. Yeah,
146. 30:11they have to.
147. 30:12I'm sure we'll figure it out, but
148. 30:14Okay. All right. Thank you, Nick. I appreciate that.
149. 30:17Good.
150. 30:18Okay. So, did we Sorry. Did we vote?
151. 30:23No.
152. 30:25Motion C is modified uh several times.
153. 30:29All in.
154. 30:30Thank you very much in favor.
155. 30:35Okay. And next,
156. 30:37thank you, Mr. Galla. Uh, next up is 345 Union Street. Um, and this was for the uh exterior renovations, including the replacement of 20 existing windows. This is a little place next to the Quaker um meeting house. Exterior renovations, including the replacement of 20 existing windows with aluminum clad two over two windows. Restoration of a previously concealed window. Replacement of vinyl siding with fiber cement lap siding non-extured and replacement of a front door entry door and repair replacement of deteriorated gutters and down spouts.
157. 31:18The only question on this was um uh was the depth of the front windows. Um if you remember uh Miss Austring uh spoke in the last meeting about the original depth of the windows.
158. 31:34Yes. Yeah. and submitted uh she sent
159. 31:36photos.
160. 31:37Photos.
161. 31:38Yeah.
162. 31:40Is the is the applicant online
163. 31:45or 345 Union Street?
164. 31:50No. How would we like to handle that?
165. 31:57We have a direct email written.
166. 32:00Um I'm sure we do. I just I don't have it right now, but I can
167. 32:06for this is just for the CFA.
168. 32:09Yes,
169. 32:09I think we can.
170. 32:11No, I know we can vote, but I I don't know.
171. 32:15So, were the were the photos shared with the applicant?
172. 32:19I don't know if they were I think Mr. Shovel was sent them. Commissioner Shovel was sent them.
173. 32:25I didn't I didn't send them along to the applicant. I don't know. I mean it would be a situation where he's he could do likes for like it would be our recommendation to you know based on the the older photos that he perhaps consider
174. 32:41the newer windows are smaller than the original go back to the original.
175. 32:45Yes.
176. 32:45I think that's good. I don't think this is a deal breaker.
177. 32:48No, it's not. In terms of moving forward, I think we can frame it as a recommendation or preference of the the commission
178. 32:56to look at the original.
179. 32:59So the height, right?
180. 33:01Yes.
181. 33:02The depth of the windows. So there it was very clear. Um would you like to see the
182. 33:07there was a fire in the
183. 33:09Yeah. I honest in my opinion I didn't see that there was a significant difference in height based on the photos that Carol has sent us.
184. 33:17No, I know. And there's nothing about this that I I see as unimportant on.
185. 33:23No, not at all. Again, we're just being if this
186. 33:32these were the this was the fire the fire photo. So, you can see that all the windows were equal um with the
187. 33:42Are you able to do a side by side with the picture that they had given us?
188. 33:49That's
189. 34:02Yeah, they're much slower.
190. 34:04They are on the right.
191. 34:06Yeah, this this is being the one on the right.
192. 34:10This one is being dropped back down. the same size as the her and the other part, but they were originally
193. 34:18Yeah. Well, no, because you see the trim cuz it's got a wide trim on it. Those are those
194. 34:24you you can see these are more rectalinear if that's
195. 34:31and these are forhortened. Okay.
196. 34:36Look at the size of little rectangle left between the first two windows.
197. 34:41Yeah. at the proportion that those publish
198. 34:44and again this would only be a recommendation. I mean
199. 34:52would the commission like um like someone to reach out to the applicant to say with these two photos say this is what we'd like to do.
200. 35:01Yeah.
201. 35:05Oh yeah. No, I'm happy to.
202. 35:07Oh, okay. Wonderful. I'll send you his email.
203. 35:09Okay.
204. 35:10Okay. Very good.
205. 35:11So I' I'd like to go forward the C and we'll follow direct contact to the applicant
206. 35:19which is excellent. Thanks.
207. 35:20So So not yet motion to approve the the prepared by the city attorney and pull on journey. All in favor?
208. 35:34Uh it's approved and we will follow up and thank you Paul.
209. 35:37Yes. Thank you. and uh Commissioner Barrett, I'll send you his information. Uh next up is uh the CFA for uh 409 uh Warren Street, which is uh double-sided aluminum hanging sign 409 Warren Street. That was from Matthew Signs.
210. 36:02I'll make the motion. Motion to approve the Cay is Jeremy and second Carol. All in favor?
211. 36:10Okay. Next up is uh 711. Uh and this was another sign uh for the I think it's called Field of Supply 71 Warren Street. the internally illuminated double-sided sign that was right outside by the public square.
212. 36:38Yes. Nor the discussions the applicant promised us that it would be a warm line.
213. 36:45Yes.
214. 36:48And with the temperature and that is written into the CFA with a temperature of 2700 K or less. Thank you.
215. 36:57Uh can we motion C? Uh Paul and Jeremy uh Paul.
216. 37:06Okay. And uh next up we have 39 Allen Street. This was also a sign of Miss Vor's sign doublesided with a straight metal uh bracket fixed to her home.
217. 37:21Uh yeah, that was Nicole, right? Yes. Uh a motion Paul and Jeremy. All in favor? I
218. 37:31Okay. And next up is um 330 Warren Street, 330 Warren Street. And this is the exterior alteration to the existing structure including replacement. This was the new gallery right by Mel's Bakery.
219. 37:47Yes.
220. 37:48Uh existing structure including the replacement of the plywood way. It's called Walling on South facade with the new painted brick facade. addition of five courses of block to uh to add to the building height to increase the slope. It's the drainage perimeter slope. Uh infilling of wall openings on the eastern facade to match the existing facade and increasing the window sill height on the west facade. That was for more privacy in the bathroom. Reconfiguration of the north fenestration and refinishing of facades with silicut paint which was a matte paint.
221. 38:26Good motion. Paul and Karen could put them all the paper.
222. 38:34Uh and we got that.
223. 38:37Okay. Uh next up we have two continuations. Uh first is the um 30 Union Street garage. Uh, is there anyone online to speak to 30 Union Street?
224. 38:53Yes.
225. 38:55Oh, hi Mr. Cofflin.
226. 38:57Hey, how are you?
227. 38:59Good. How are you?
228. 39:00Good. Um, so, uh, did you send us something?
229. 39:05We did. Um, we sent it over last week. I think Eric from my office had sent it to you, I believe.
230. 39:13Okay, let me get it. Okay.
231. 39:21I think all all we were trying to do at this point um was to um after the last meeting we needed to get rid of the Hardy board siding and put that back to wood. And then um we were adding a a faux uh haloff door to the gable end along the alley
232. 39:43as seen there. Correct. Yes. Okay. So, this is the hay lock door.
233. 39:49Um,
234. 39:50and then the note the notation for the siding has been changed to wood siding. Um, has been changed to wood siding from the Hardy board siding. I think that was a comment uh that the board had asked for.
235. 40:03Okay. And that uh I'm sure you it's somewhere on the plans here, right?
236. 40:10Yeah. Uh keep going down.
237. 40:13Okay. Let's see here. Uh, keep going. Keep going. It's right there.
238. 40:21Okay,
239. 40:21it's uh it is noted as uh woodlap siding color and it's got a Sheron Williams color number there. It's on the uh if you move your cursor up there.
240. 40:35Here it is right there.
241. 40:36Yep. Yep.
242. 40:37Great. Wonderful. Thank you so much,
243. 40:44Chairman.
244. 40:44Good. That that that's uh appears to be a fair followup of what we discussed and what we agreed to be out of curiosity, not out of mal intent because I can't see what's the color.
245. 40:58The color says Oh, go ahead. It's a it's it's a it's a white of a a version of white still. Uh, I'll make I'll second that motion you quietly made. Paul and Jeremy, I'm in favor.
246. 41:21I
247. 41:23uh did we just approve this?
248. 41:26So, we did.
249. 41:27We did.
250. 41:28Uh, city attorney will see.
251. 41:32Done. This was a journey and a half. I think we need to maybe say wave a public hearing.
252. 41:41Thank you. Correct.
253. 41:46Complete. Right. Yes.
254. 41:48Thank you very much.
255. 41:55Have a motion to find the application complete. Uh we're going to go with Jeremy and Paul again. All in favor. Motion to wave the public hearing and request the city ad. Uh that would be Cara and Paul. All in favor?
256. 42:11I approve.
257. 42:14Am I okay?
258. 42:15Yes.
259. 42:16Thank you.
260. 42:16Uh so uh so uh Kevin, you're you're approved. It's all it's approved.
261. 42:24Thank you. I'll have to see in a few weeks.
262. 42:26Yeah.
263. 42:27Right. Thank you very much.
264. 42:29Thank you.
265. 42:30Yeah. Bye. Okay.
266. 42:31Okay. Uh, and next up is uh 22224 Warren Street and that's a garage demo. Is there someone online to speak for 22224 Warren Street garage demo?
267. 42:51No.
268. 42:52Had we looked at this at all before, Jim?
269. 42:54No.
270. 42:55Okay. So, it's a it's a new demo proposal.
271. 42:57Yes. Yes.
272. 42:58Isn't that the one that I went and looked at?
273. 43:00We did we we didn't find any uh massive kind of deterioration.
274. 43:06Yeah.
275. 43:07So, uh just on that single parameter of is it sufficiently decayed from Gilbert and Sullivan? Um it's not. So, we'll see. I'll have to come back. I'll make sure I notify them and make them sure they know they're supposed to be at these things.
276. 43:30So, we're going to do that again in two weeks. Give them a one more chance for something.
277. 43:33Yeah, that that would be great. I I mean, I I want to respect what they're trying to do and why they're trying to let them try to explain
278. 43:40and we can we can we can discuss it and say, you know, we we're not enthusiastic about demo. So, making a case. Okay,
279. 43:52thank you.
280. 43:53So, that's a no show for today. Um, and next we will move to Crown Scooters. We have one new application.
281. 44:01Um, and our applicant is here in person.
282. 44:05Hello.
283. 44:07So, let's talk about scooters. We're focusing basically on the sign.
284. 44:11That's all. Let's look at the sign.
285. 44:13Series of signs. Well, there's one major big sign and then the rest are like cardboard like makeshift ones that I have with the six that you stick in like the round sidewalks. Yeah.
286. 44:29The cardboard ones is that what you would use going forward or would they become
287. 44:34going for examp
288. 44:45Well, that's the thing. It's not permanent either. Uh she picks them up every night and puts them out every morning. Uh I was um yeah but we're here to
289. 44:56I mean does this with putting out a sandwich board and taking it in every night
290. 45:01is that any kind of a precedent or something? Is there
291. 45:07I was advised by the city attorney that she should come before the C the HPC. Um, but this is a temporary sign that gets taken away every night and there is no permanent fixture.
292. 45:21I I can't see how we would not approve this.
293. 45:24Oh, yeah.
294. 45:27Okay. Um, motion to find the application complete. I'm going to try to do it right for those people on the other side of the room.
295. 45:36Watch yourself.
296. 45:39Jeremy all in favor. Motion to wave the public hearing. CFA that would be Tara and Jeremy.
297. 45:48Uh all in favor.
298. 45:50So you get a C in two weeks. Stay in touch with code though. He knows what he's doing.
299. 45:55Yeah.
300. 45:57And congratulations on this.
301. 46:00I have one question. Is it just the signs on that area? Do I have permission to run the scooters on that area just for like the signs?
302. 46:08They are vehicles. You can put the sign back up. I'm giving you that donation verbally right now.
303. 46:16I'm talking about for like a historic district where I have the sweet stuff. Is that
304. 46:19Everything's good.
305. 46:20You are great.
306. 46:21Congratulations. You're good to go.
307. 46:23Thank you so much. Thank you.
308. 46:26Thank you.
309. 46:28Have a good one.
310. 46:29You too.
311. 46:32I believe that's our meeting.
312. 46:36Yes. I am snack.
313. 46:40That is just outstanding.
314. 46:44Any commissioners want to talk about any stuff?
315. 46:53Uh, any commissioners want to adjourn the meeting? like there's a not a very handsome man but we're going to
316. 47:04you don't want public meeting
317. 47:08always Paul
318. 47:09yes
319. 47:10and Jeremy all in favor being adjourned and
320. 47:14Lloyd one second
321. 47:17I didn't really have much to say I was just apologize my

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