At a glance
A special Thursday meeting entirely on the Bliss Towers redevelopment. After engineering review, architect Alexander Gorlin's detailed presentation, and a traffic analysis showing minimal impact, the board issued a SEQR negative declaration and scheduled a public hearing for July 21. The plan replaces today's 135-unit Bliss Towers and Columbia Apartments with 166 units across three new buildings — two four-story apartment buildings and six townhouses. Phase 1 builds first, so existing tenants can move in before phase 2 takes the tower down. The application was also referred to the Columbia County Planning Board.
013:27
Opening and a public conflict-of-interest disclosure
The chair opened the special meeting and outlined the night's three topics: engineering, architecture, and SEQR. A board member who had previously served on the Hudson Housing Authority board addressed the public record on perceived conflicts of interest.
Key points
- The chair explained that the project was too large to share a single agenda with other monthly Planning Board business — hence the dedicated special meeting.
- A board member who had served on the HHA board until shortly before her appointment to the Planning Board addressed concerns aired in the local press. She said she has no financial or relational interest in the project, did not shape the development (she joined the HHA board after the development committee had completed most planning), and has received legal clearance to participate fully.
- The chair noted that under Planning Board rules, each member decides individually how to engage with any matter — there is no chair-level recusal mechanism.
A note on the transcript
This page is built from YouTube's automatic captions. The transcript has no speaker labels and garbles many names, so this summary describes speakers by role and uses applicant and team names only where they were clearly stated aloud. Check anything important against the city's official minutes.
0211:08
The project, end to end: what's being built and why
The Hudson Housing Authority and its development partner Mowco Construction & Development Corp walked the board through where the project stands, what's funded, and what's planned.
Key points
- The existing site — 135 units between Bliss Towers and the Columbia Apartments — was found by a comprehensive needs assessment to be obsolete and not viable for rehabilitation. Full replacement is required.
- The proposed project: 166 units across three new buildings — two four-story apartment buildings (A1, B1) and six townhouse units on a separate parcel — for a total of 276 units when phase 2 replaces the existing tower in a future stage.
- Phase 1 builds the two apartment buildings and the townhouses first. Phase 2 takes down the existing Bliss Tower after current tenants move into phase 1, and replaces it with an L-shaped building on Columbia Street — creating an open central green space.
- Funding: the primary funder is New York State Homes & Community Renewal's Housing Finance Agency. The project has been accepted into the New York State Brownfield Cleanup Program, has received Pro-Housing funding from the state, and has received a Downtown Revitalization Initiative (DRI) grant. The state has signaled potential financial closing in December 2026 if all approvals are in place by then.
0318:27
Engineering review: variances, the sewer separation, and a townhouse question
The board's engineering consultant walked through the May 14 submission, focusing on big-ticket items: the townhouses' need for a separate zoning approval, water and wastewater capacity, the SEQR materials, and the traffic and parking reports.
Key points
- The townhouses sit on the R4 zone where the project's other buildings sit on GC, and they trigger about **seven area variances** (setbacks, lot coverage, and number of dwelling units). The application is tentatively scheduled for the Zoning Board of Appeals on June 17.
- The code enforcement officer is reviewing whether those variances are correctly identified; a letter from him will lock that down before the public hearing notice.
- The applicant is keeping the townhouses in phase 1 even if the ZBA process tightens the timeline — they're considered an important early piece.
- The city's combined-sewer separation project is already complete in this part of the city; the engineering team can rely on the new separated sewers.
- Storm water is handled with underground retention basins. The phase 1 parking lot has retaining walls down to the forest with safety fencing and guide rails along the top.
- The engineer asked the applicant to make sure the traffic and parking study numbers match the site-plan numbers across documents.
0443:21
The architectural case: what Gorlin proposed, and why
Design architect Alexander Gorlin gave a thorough presentation of the project's design philosophy — explicitly framing the replacement of Bliss Towers as a correction of the urban-renewal-era choices that severed the site from the city grid.
Key points
- Gorlin recounted the project's history in the city: the site originally sat at the city's edge above the south bay; Hudson's strict grid had service alleys between major streets; Chapel Alley was closed during urban renewal in the 1970s, and the tower itself is a textbook example of the 'tower-in-the-park' model from Le Corbusier's Radiant City — a model that severs buildings from streets.
- The new buildings are oriented to face the street, with bay windows on living rooms, brick and Hardie-plank cladding, paired vertical windows for scale, solar panels and green roofs on top, and a central 1.6-acre open green space — comparable in size to other beloved Hudson parks like Promenade.
- The plan proposes reopening **North First Street between Columbia and State** — a street that closed during urban renewal — to begin restoring the broken grid. Chapel Alley reopening is not currently feasible.
- All buildings will be fully electric — no fossil fuels — and meet New York State Energy Code requirements for sustainability, with solar on roofs and individually-controlled heating and cooling in every room.
- Gorlin showed examples of his firm's prior work on AIA-award-winning affordable-housing projects in Brooklyn and the Bronx, emphasizing his philosophy that affordable housing should not look like affordable housing — every resident deserves a dignified place to live.
Connections
Reopening North First Street, restoring streetscape, and providing real open space are core goals in Hudson's comprehensive plan — which mentions affordable housing 130 times. The plan also calls explicitly for repairing the harms of urban renewal.
0560:00
Traffic, viewsheds, energy: questions for the board
Board members asked about open-space programming, building access, snow and storm response, and lighting.
Key points
- The 1.6-acre central park is intended as program-able community space; an open workshop with residents in September 2024 generated suggested uses — children's playground, dog run, fitness areas, amphitheater on the slope, fragrance and vegetable gardens.
- Fire access: the building is set with a 13.5-foot clearance through the archway specifically so fire equipment can get to the back parking lot. A board member asked for a written letter from the fire department on file.
- Resident access to the central park: clear pathways from each building, plus a crosswalk on State Street.
- Winter operations: buildings double-insulated, individual heating and cooling in each room, snow-removal handled by HHA management.
- Traffic analysis (Kim Moore's John Cannon): two scenarios studied — with and without pedestrianization of State Street (which is **not** in the current application). In both scenarios all intersections operate at level-of-service B or better; pedestrianization would shift roughly 100 vehicles per hour to Columbia Street, increasing delay there by about 6 seconds. No significant traffic impact found.
061:13:00
SEQR: a negative declaration, and a public hearing set for July 21
The board worked through the State Environmental Quality Review process, accepted the applicant's draft Part 3 narrative with minor edits, and voted unanimously to issue a SEQR negative declaration. The board then scheduled a public hearing for July 21.
Key points
- The board worked through the remaining open Part 2 questions on open space, transportation (concluding the new street and First Street reopening would not be a negative impact and would in fact improve circulation), electrical substation needs (relying on the energy code and forthcoming load letter from the utility), and brownfield remediation (relying on the New York State DEC's oversight role).
- Minor edits were accepted to the draft Part 3 narrative — clarifying that a small corner of the site is in a 500-year flood plain (no buildings there), and adding language from the DEC's lead-agency letter confirming no peregrine falcon or bald eagle nest is nearby.
- The board voted by roll call to **issue a SEQR negative declaration** — finding no significant adverse environmental impacts.
- The board scheduled a public hearing for **Tuesday, July 21, 6 p.m.**, with the location tentatively at the fire station (to be confirmed). The hearing will remain open for **10 days** afterward for written public comment.
- The board also voted to refer the application to the Columbia County Planning Board.
What's next
Engineering issues continue at the regular June Planning Board meeting. The ZBA hears the townhouse variances on June 17. Public hearing on July 21. If everything stays on track, financial closing with the state could come in December.
Read the full transcript
3:27meeting to order planning already clerk will call the role. >> Mr. Black here, >> Mr. Shi here >> and three and seven. >> Uh before we get underway, a couple of announcements. Uh first of all, this is a special meeting of the planning board. Um we felt that uh there's too much business for this month to be conducted at one meeting and there's a lot of heavy lifting occurring tonight in this meeting. So we called for a special meeting. I want to acknowledge the board and our and our consultants and and others for giving up another night. uh of your of your personal time to serve the community on this important project and the other projects. Second announcement is that member Spear, Peter Spear was called out
4:31of the city for business and uh was very unhappy that he had to miss this meeting because he understands the heft of the topics that we're dealing with tonight. Uh those are my two announcements. Any other comments or announcements before we get into the business of the evening? Yes, I would like to make sure >> um I think most people who have been following the public recent public media in town about this project may have seen a concern expressed in the register star and gossips about whether or not my participation in the a discussion of the HH project constitutes a a real or perceived conflict of interest. um before I was appointed uh because I previously served as a board as a member of the board of commissioners of the housing authority from January 2025 till I resigned prior to being appointed to this board. Um, we spoke, I believe the mayor spoke with the city attorneys and I've had a chance to speak with the
5:34planning board attorney and Ron did as well before my appointment. And, um, just out of respect for our neighbors and this process and the applicants, I just want to clarify that I I I do not meet by any stretch of the imagination any sort of legal threshold or a conflict of interest. I have no financial interest in this project. I'm not financially or relationally involved with any of the applicants party um other than you know I see next office at a barbecue every now and again. Um, and I think the matter of a perception of a conflict of interest, I think John Freeman in the register star was quoted saying that I would be appointed to rubber stamp a project that I developed. And that wasn't my experience on the housing authority board. I was appointed after the majority of the development work had been decided on, including all the the sort of resident feedback. Um, most of what I learned about this project, I learned the same way other members of the public might have by
6:36going to the HHA meetings. I was never a member of the development committee. Um, I I essentially in no way shaped this development. I I went back and checked the minutes from my um appointment. We never voted on this project. Uh, I never really weighed in substantively on the configuration of the project. I think I at one point later in the process asked a question in public, you know, how can the commissioners be sort of supporting this process? But and so I welcome any public or or personal feedback on this, but I have received clearance from legal counsel to participate fully as a as a member of the planning board. Um, and I think that might be all I have to say. And this is a point of clarification. U the planning board is appointed by the mayor. Uh and in this matter, the planning board itself included the chairman has no particular authority or
7:39position to make any determination. Uh it would be Sarah's decision alone to decide how she wanted to engage on this particular project. So thank you for sharing that point of view. And um now um if there are any other comments or questions or discussions before we get into our business. Um tonight uh u we're dealing with three major u topics. Uh the first will be the continuing dialogue between engineers on the engineering issues that have been raised. Uh and um Tom to spend a little more time talking about where we are in that process. But I want to acknowledge and thank both teams, the HHA engineering team and our team for working not just working in planning board meeting for working in between the meetings and really uh uh working through the kind of detail that has to be uh dealt with in order to get a project this complicated through the planning process uh and to approval. Um
8:43the second thing we'll be uh appearing tonight is a presentation from Alexander Gorland who is the design architect on the project. Uh I anticipate this will be the most thorough presentation we'll have on this topic and I think it will help answer a lot of questions that we've been um dealing with in a in in a maybe more peace meal way. I think Alex's willingness to come up from the city be to make this presentation will really help uh not only help us understand sort of the context philosophy sort of intellectual guidelines that helped then shape this project but also more effectively how it it really fits within the context of of our community. So we're looking forward, Alex, to your presentation. And finally, u Andrew will take us through the next stages of seeker, which will be the Q&A that we'd started before. Um there are two possible action items tonight. We may, yes, two, we may decide to take action on Seeker, which means we may
9:46decide that uh there's a either a positive or a negative determination. Um, and we may be deciding tonight of scheduling the public hearing. And the public hearing, while we continue to work on the details of of the ongoing application, the public hearing really becomes the capstone of the process before the board ultimately makes the decision on the application. So the the public hearing gives the voice of the public an opportunity to be a part of the record and to bring their lived experiences into the conversation. So it's an important part of the process. Many other of boards and agencies in in Hudson have public comment at every meeting, but our process is a prolonged process and the public is not invited to be a part of the conversation until all of the data and all of the information has been brought forward. So, it's a different kind of a structure than many of the other organizations have found, but it's a an important part of the process. So with that, um, I'd like to
10:49go ahead and turn it over to you, Tom, to begin us, uh, down the path with the engineering work. Thank you. So, our office review this wanted to Jeffrey and Raanda to make opening comments before we get into the meat particular. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Good evening, Chairman Bo, and planning board members. Um, thank you for allowing us to be here again. We're pleased to be here to present that on the authority redevelopment the initiative. Um by way of background uh you all are aware that the Hudson housing authority the home and manages 135 units uh called Bliss and Columbia Bliss Towers and Columbia apartments. Um, prior to my arrival, uh, there was a comprehensive physical needs assessment, uh, that was completed, um, and the conclusion was that the building was obsolete, uh, inefficient and not viable for rehabilitation.
11:51Um, as a result, full replacement is not just recommended, but necessary. Um, so we are fortunate, we have a really great team. We have Malco, our development partners who have had who has years of experience in developing affordable housing. They've de developed thousands of units throughout the region. Myself who brings lived experiences. I was a public housing resident as well as working in the industry for a number of years. Um and uh our board of commissioners who are dedicated to ensuring that the housing authority uh mission is obtained. Um so we have been very intentional um and thoughtful about how we've crafted our plan, our development plan. Um and you know with that we've designed um a a place that's going to have better amenities uh a a good housing and sustainable uh long-term viability. So, with that, I'd
12:55like to turn it over to Raonda, who's gonna who's our board chair. Proud to say she's our board chair, who is also a lifelong Hudson resident. I mean, she's going to share her perspective on the project um as well as her experience um in advocacy. >> Yeah, thank you for that, Jeff. Thank you guys for being here. As Ron said, I really appreciate you guys taking out the time to see us and have a special meeting. As you all know, I was born and raised in the Hudson Housing Authority. I've been now on the board for six years this month. So, to see us here is just like absolutely amazing. I never thought that they would even come. Um, and yeah, um, I just want to say with the board really took their time and we had Nick as our interim director really finding an executive director to make this come to fruition, which we were then able to find Malco, which has been like absolutely amazing. And then Alex on top. He just puts a cherry right on top. And um and um are they here tonight? >> He's doing those white.
13:57>> And they just really and they put the grape on top. And I'm not going to carry on as you guys know what my spiel is. I'm just very excited to see this, you know, coming start happening and something coming about. So thank you all for being here. >> Thanks Jeffrey. Thanks. Uh, so let's get underway. And uh, >> thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could, I would just like to u for the record, my name is John Madd. I'm the executive vice president of Malco Construction and Development Corp where uh, the housing authorities partner several years ago. The housing authority um, went through an open public process to select a development partner. The city was involved in that. City staff was involved in the interviews and uh, and reviewing the applications. map was selected and we've been working with uh the housing since then. Just want to spend just a couple of minutes um to give a larger perspective. I know what your responsibilities are to review the site plan, but for interests of transparency for the public. Um I just want to give you a couple of words on
15:01where we are in the process. This is a long process. The primary funding for this project is going to come from New York State Division of Homes and Community Renewal, the Housing Finance Agency. It's the primary source of funding for affordable housing in the state right now. Uh it is a competitive process. Um we are in competition uh with other housing authorities to get a limited source of funding. The housing finance agency usually has uh financing closings um two or three times a year. Right now we've been told that we've been slotted for potential closing in December of this year if we have uh all of our approvals in place. meaning um site plan approvals, building permits, and all the other financing. Um I think that you should know that um we've already uh received for this project several commitments of funding uh from the state uh through the pro housing uh uh application process, several million dollars there. The project has been approved by the New York State
16:03Department of uh environmental um conservation for a brownfield site. Okay. Which uh allows us to remediate some of the existing conditions on the site and uh and will provide some additional funding for the project. Um and also the downtown revitalization um uh initiative. We've received funding under that uh that uh program as well. So, a lot of the financing is already in the works. Um, and we're moving towards uh December closing hopefully. Uh, and I can't emphasize enough the uh the competition for these funds is is significant as you can imagine. Um, just very briefly and and the architects will go into this much more detail so that you have an idea. You're all site. You're all familiar with Bliss Towers. Um, there's 135 units on the site now between Bliss Towers and Columbia Apartments. um uh through extensive studies it was determined that it really wouldn't be prudent to try to renovate those buildings. Okay. rather uh the a proper approach after talking with our
17:05architects and engineers and the state uh is to provide new housing um uh which gives us an opportunity to really create a new environment and the architects I'm going to talk about how this gives us the opportunity to create a development that's really more in keeping with uh with the Hudson community than a a ninestory masonry building um which we're going to take down. So the application you have before you is just for 166 units um uh three buildings um and uh includes a townhouse site and um two uh four-story buildings uh we spent a lot of time with the community uh over the course of the last couple of years talking about design and bringing people in and get getting their input. So the design that the architect's going to talk to you about is something that we've refined. Not saying it's final, but we spent a lot of work on it. Um, so, um, uh, we're anxious to get, um, get your input into it. Um, and, um, I think I'm going to stop there and then, uh, as John first, our attorney,
18:07the planning board, uh, piece, but I wanted to create that outline so that the public is aware of where we are, what we're doing. We're continuing to have uh, discussions with the state uh, and the state has been very responsive. Uh, this is a priority project to the state um, to get this done. So thank you very much. >> Are there others that are speaking? >> Just about the planning board engineer talk. I think we, you know, I think comments. >> So our office was asked to review the submission that came in on May 14th. Um it looked like that submission was made a lot to address a lot of the comments and discussions at the last planning board meeting focusing on the general site plan, landscaping, lighting, architecture, things like that that the planning board asked for at the last meeting. Um it was also focused on a lot of the seeker process with EAF materials and supporting materials included in that. Um so our office went through that. We also went through the prior engineers comments and we issued just a sort of mirroring of the uh the approvals that are needed that are on
19:08the EF already. We're already known. We just like to say that early on because this letter is going to kind of work as a a checklist for as these comments are addressed. We'll keep them in here and we'll say common address or comment remains and try to explain things further. Um, so the site plan that was submitted was pretty much the same site plan we've seen in the last submission. And one of our one of our primary comments on that was just to make sure that we incorporate um the town houses properly. So the the town houses are on a different zone. They're in the R4 zone and there's been some discussion about how to make that work because a lot of the setbacks don't really work. So I know there's discussion about having that either be ZBA variances or potential zone change to to GC like the rest of the site. So, so I can answer that question. So, we did make an application to the zoning board for about seven area variances mostly with respect to setbacks, front yard, sideyard, um maximum lot coverage as well as number of dwelling units. So, the application has been submitted. Uh we are tenatively scheduled for the ZBA meeting on June uh 17th, I believe it
20:12is. >> Okay. There was a separate plan as well for that townhouse site that was with the CBA that I think was it it was submitted but I don't know if it was reviewed because based on comments it looks like we didn't see it um a separate sheet in there >> that's just dealing with the our four zone site. Yes, >> I didn't see that in the submission. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, it's it's submitted on to the >> board. So, I guess was he submitted to the planning board? He's probably he's not reviewing the zoning board. So, >> yes, if it went to the zoning board, we would have probably >> that might be the >> So, it it would be good probably get get a look at that and confirm that the varian you're asking for are the ones that are anybody's determined that >> the code enforcement officer is reviewing that now back to ZBA attorney. So I my understanding is the process is the code enforcement officer who's the
21:14one that's yes has a jurisdiction to make those determinations and interpret the code will issue a letter um kind of confirming okay yes we need these variances or maybe we missed one maybe we don't need one. Um, so we hope to have that letter within the next couple of weeks and then we'll have a preliminary meeting before the zoning board and they'll kind of confirm the code enforcement officers determinations and make sure we get everything right for the public hearing notice. >> Okay. And then our comment kind of tagged on to that if that process was going to be long-winded if you wanted to consider moving that piece of it to phase two that might be something we could consider. I think we want to, you know, we've had that conversation internally, but it's very important component and piece of this project um to get those town houses up and running sooner rather than later. So, I think the the the goal right now is to include them in phase one. >> Okay. >> Uh obviously, if we hit some bumps in the road, we're going to have to reassess. Um, so I think our letter was pretty clear in a lot of the comments where we're available if anybody has questions
22:16on those things, but we tried to focus on the big ticket items like confirming the water wastewater availability, which is a process through the city that I'm I'm thinking people are familiar with here. Um, the zoning, the EAF, the approvals, and then we focused on a lot of the um the seeker stuff. So, a draft part three narrative was offered. We went through all the the details on that. That draft part three looks at all the different potential impacts and speaks to how or if they're going to be adverse or major in any way and addresses those. Great. Um, so we were pretty that was very helpful to have the draft of and we made some comments on that and shared it with the planning board here. Minor comments that are just going to make it a little stronger and clarify some stuff. >> Sure. Um, I think we also reviewed the uh the traffic report, the parking reports, and while they were well put together and everything like that, they didn't necessarily match the numbers on the plan. So, that was one of our comments, too, just to make sure all the t charts and tables and the plans match the reports or the reports match.
23:21>> And I think that's about a good highlight on our comments unless they have questions or anybody against. >> No. Um, I don't have any issues with with addressing the comments. If you want to go through them one by one, we can, but I don't see anything that doesn't that we want to address. >> I don't have a need to go through one by one, but like I said, if there's questions on what what we would ask for is when a resubmission was made, if there could be a response letter to these comments saying how you're addressing them, that's very helpful. >> That's how we do it every time. So, >> thank you. >> So, we'll resume this conversation at the June meeting. uh and hopefully bring it to conclusion. >> And then there may be a new submission that addresses some of these in which case there'll be a new letter saying common address potentially. >> And I appreciate that you submitted all your materials by the deadline for this meeting. There's a flood of materials all in one afternoon. Somebody was working hard. But just to get it on the record, our deadline for the June 9th meeting would be >> two weeks prior.
24:25>> Sorry. Well, that's right. We're having a discussion. I Oh my gosh, you have no time. It's tomorrow. I tell you what, we Jeff and I will talk and see if we can negotiate that a little bit. So, you have a little bit more time. Um, we chat after the meeting tonight. >> Thank you. >> Anything else on the engineering discussion? I don't know if you want our site civil engineer kind of go through the site plan real quick before we turn it over to Alex and his architectural review get everybody's bearings >> you can see the plan >> it's hard for the public to see it at the same time but maybe present from that make more sense SC
25:59So, if you're you're all familiar with the streets involved, North Second Street is here. State Street is here. Columbia Street runs parallel to State Street at the bottom of the page. Uh, currently the Bliss Tower sits here, which stories you see it everywhere pretty much. I think I saw it coming in on the on the road. Uh and then there's some lower uh town houses or uh condo kind of units all along this side. This is what we call phase two between Columbia Street, State Street, and North Second Street. Uh then the site, this area over here is uh grass. It has a parking lot. It has like a little gazebo area uh and another building over here. Um that is all planned to be demolished
27:02and turned into um this building which is shaped like that. On our site plan, you can see that we highlighted that we're going underneath the building with the parking lot and parking behind the building off the State Street and and the building is located along the frontage of State Street sort of like the streetscape. It's here in downtown. Uh then there's across the street across State Street in this location is alo there's like a couple of little buildings a couple of little parking areas but that's the area for the second part of this uh phase one. So this building and this building will be built first. The applicant uh then plans to move the tendency from this building and these buildings into the new facilities clearing up the ability for us to come back and get a new plan approved for the uh phase 2 which you can see is a quite
28:07nice mesh parcel if it was didn't have this tower hit right here. So, in that case, the building would be L-shaped and it's on Columbia Street instead of State Street, making for um a usable open space right in the middle of the project. Uh couple of things that we did from the last time that you saw it. Uh we we originally had parking lot in this location and we determined with John Kenny, our traffic consultant, that that that extra parking there is not necessary. So we'd like to make that into a temporary open space play area for uh the duration of the time when this is under construction. Once this is finished, then this would be restored to a parking parking lot and the uh recreation area would be uh relocated to the open space in the center of the
29:09project. So that's uh that was a comment somebody made. It was a good one. So we decided that was uh what we would do. Uh along this area here we have some retaining walls. Most the grades drop off sharply right at this area. Um there's a forest and if you look at it, you'll see that it drops off. The rest of the site uh slopes gently from State Street to here. We have I believe like 15 ft or 20 ft of drive uh down the street even though it doesn't look steep the long way and it drops quite a bit. So the building appears to be uh you know out of the ground here and uh Alex will uh talk about uh how that is treated architecture but it's incorporated into the design. Um so the design the entrance and
30:11everything is all designed to accommodate uh you know uh ADA parking direct access to a lobby elevators to the various floors and similarly over here uh there's a grade change between here and there. So this is about the average grade where this entrance is. And there's also a a proposed space under here which is also uh even with the grades up the street on State Street. So then the last thing we talked about was the town houses. There's uh the units are here. There's actually three lots which will combine into a single lot and then uh provides for four penthouse units and I think there's actually six units in the four buildings. Uh so they're not all uniform. Behind it is a small parking lot that serves it. In terms of storm
31:15water, we're going to have underground storm water retention basins located here. Phase two will have one located in this area. And then phase one has another one in this area. Then there's some just to handle the impervious area that we're creating uh and any storm water impacts. Um I don't know if there's uh as far as parking uh John has a parking study. Uh he established how many the parking spaces we needed and so we've provided that amount of parking spaces throughout this phase two. The plan right now is to have additional parking to be under the building along Clo. So uh there's partially above grade on grade parking at this in this location. Um
32:17that's about it. I don't know if you have any questions. Uh phase one is approximately 2.28 acres, 160 units, parking spaces of 131. Uh A1 has bedrooms 92, B1 has 166. This is A1. This is the B1 building. Um phase 2 will have 116 units in this building here and uh 37 additional parking spaces uh once we have this turned it back into parking. And uh the town homes there are six total units, six parking spaces and it's.155 acres. So this piece is 3 uh.87 acres. So this is you know much larger than the combination of these two uh areas.
33:20We're not proposing separate lots. Uh there this this will be one parcel right this space tax parcels. Okay subdivision line for this >> correct and then we did submit a subdivision application with with everything else back in October. Oh yeah, that's pretty good. Okay, forgot about that. I'm sorry. Okay, so that's my presentation unless you have any questions. >> Any questions? Um, as the board's always gotten used to with me, I see comes as this point. Um, and so I really wanted attention two points. I I guess I just had a question about I know there's an ongoing project to do sewage
34:24separation that has made its way slowly I think to the corner. >> Yeah, it's here all the way here and in here it's already separated. >> Okay, that's that was basically my entire question was if this >> was a project by the city until recently. not very much by what you were just talking about. >> Oh, so we as a city uh have a problem that is like across the entire city of >> so and for a lot of our sewers it's all combined into one sewer pipe. So like drains from parts go into the same as sanitary waste, >> right? Um, and that's a problem because the closure rates. Um, and so the city, it's like a $500 million, 50-y year long project. The city is undertaking the state support to split that apart so that there's a sewer line, etc. Um, and that's great because then when it rains,
35:28there's not an overflow. >> I see. And so, yeah, that makes sense from what I know about this other part of the city. >> Yeah. plans for the original separation which was not too long ago. >> That's how that works. >> And of course, the river is down here. >> Yeah. >> And so they naturally started at the low end. If you're going to separate it, you want to start at sewer treatment plant and the and the water discharge through the Hudson and work your way back up. So I don't know. I don't have plans for here, but I know that here uh it has been done already. Other questions, comments? Uh, yes. >> Yeah, it's just a um a minor one. I think you said um the parking lot in phase one um there's going to be a retaining wall. >> Yes. >> Um because there's a slope. >> Yes. >> Is there going to be any sort of fencing around that as well? >> Yes. The plan shows pro fence around top obviously for safety because there'll be a large drop off. We can't just have it
36:32without fence. >> I just didn't hear that. That was all. >> I didn't say that's but yes. No, of course you'll have uh fences. We have that have a guide rail along here because there's also there's a lower retaining wall here, but we don't want any cars driving off. So, we have that room for guide rail and vents and all safety uh that you would need for that. Sorry, our comment our comment letter included something on that too that would detail that as well. Focus on the same thing and we wanted to make sure it was clear. >> Yes. >> Um I have one other question um which is the um part of the general is like essentially feature or with the second floor overhangs. Um >> yeah, what the lobby comes in on the lower floor and then the main floor >> on the second floor.
37:37>> Right. >> So this is elevation 70. This is elevation 60. So this is coming in 10 ft below the probably 12 ft below this first floor of this building. >> I think we're talking about the parking lot entrance on Second Street. Is that what you're >> Yeah, that's what I was asking about. is that entrance where there's second floor >> on here there was no first floor in this area you drive through and there's only a second floor >> I I think J at the last meeting you had um brought this up as well but I I feel like there is a I I do have a just not not a concern really but I think just like from just like the board feeling fully comfortable the and and just like making sure that there's no concerns at all that it would be really good to have a letter from the fire department. Just like a letter saying no concern around access to the um uh back parking lot in the back of the building through that sort of arched tunnel feature um just because I I have no idea like what they
38:40prevent turning rads could fight fire from the street here. I I don't think that the fire department would come into parking lot. >> Brian, we met with the fire department and that's why it's 135 >> underneath the building so they can get their equipment through. I don't know if there's a letter to that, but we'll go out in the department. >> Well, double check that I paid for their I don't think they're probably do it. >> Yeah, I I have no idea. I know it by a person. Uh it's I think it's great that those meeting it happens but I just want to make sure that like it's in the project record and document as a sort of other questions or comments >> more about just like resident building access and narrative way I see I I'm looking at B1 in particular I see one >> next step is so I didn't want to go over everything
39:43you should go Sorry. >> Before we move on, I want to make a comment mostly for the record and on behalf of Peter Spear who had expressed some concerns that I'm sympathetic with and that is u as we approached this project. Um um the the comprehensive plan addressed the one issue it addressed was that we should seek to correct the harm that was done during the urban renewal period in our communities. And um and so we want to reflect the fact that board is cognizant of that and I believe that the applicant is cognizant of that and I believe we'll be hearing some ways that the project is addressing those those farms that were created. But one of the issues that most cities struggle with is how to break up the the mega blocks, the big blocks that were created when these urban projects were created. And in this instance, Chapel, which on the other side of Second is Long Alley, Chapel from Second to First was closed. Um there wasn't a
40:48First Street connection between State and uh Colombia. Um but in the in the non-b businessiness, in the non-meating times when we've had conversations, we've explored different ideas about how we might address that clearly without completely disrupting the project. The idea of opening chapel between second what would be first would be it's just would be unacceptable and undoable. But we kicked around the idea about could you re could you open first street between Columbia and state because beautifully there's a parking lot there that's in the same footprint as first street. Um so I think in the end I think we want to first of all acknowledge that we are paying attention to the comprehensive plan. two, we are exploring ways that we can achieve some of the objectives of the plan within the context of the real world, but we'd also like to I mean I even explored with Andrew the idea of putting some conditions on approval so that some future planning board and some
41:50future HHA applicant when they start uh rebuilding the space between what would be First Street and Front Street that they really give consideration to reopening chapel in that in that superb block and opening first street. But as uh Andrew said, we really can't commit future planning boards to obligations. So I think maybe just as a gesture that we are cognizant that our role is to help implement the comprehensive plan. So these are conversations that we're having, explorations that we're having, but also I think we'll be informed better after the presentation on architecture because the connections that uh Mr. Orland will make in terms of how they responded to some of the issues of the decisions that were made in the 70s that were made by people who I'm sure were um strong civic leaders, but their context was different than ours. And so we're making as much progress as we can in this in this project and hope
42:54that future um HHA and planning board teams can make even further changes to address those farms. So with that I think that would conclude our engineering discussion. Anything else you want to add? Anything? Okay. Thank you sir. And uh Nathan did you have something else? I say thank you. Um, yes. Uh, it's up for you, Alexander. >> Yeah. Sure. First, I'll refer to this later, but this is a little mon the uh it shows the sequence of events uh from the existing list tower uh sitting alone on its hill anti-urban. >> What I have I I mean the drawing show this but model Uh and then phase one would include it's
43:59really to emphasize how it's essential that this power be taken down. Um >> I don't think there's any question about that. Well, I think it's possible because also these town houses which have very few people in them are very close to uh the phase one construction and then after decanted into the uh first phase then phase two would be built and that would create this wonderful open green space in the center. So and now I will present >> yes. So, thank you for the opportunity to present uh comprehension that we're recount the history of the project actually from and of Hudson and how it will fit into the city of Hudson um as
45:04well as our qualifications uh to uh to do affordable housing. So, I'm Alex Gorland of Alexander Brolan Architects and the team is uh Ari Alfang. I'm the design architect. He is the executive architect and that was chosen uh for to expedite the project to make it more efficient and our u developer mount co who we I have worked with actually over the past 15 years doing a num a number of award-winning projects. So get started. Um so since 1999 I've been involved with affordable housing. This is um 500 uh modular town houses in East New York on landfill across from Jamaica Bay. And this was built over time for the Nehemiah Housing Development Fund, which is a community organizing group that is uh uh organizes faith-based congregations for political power. Uh and this was built over a 10-year
46:07period. Uh they were built in the Brooklyn Navy Yard. next um and truck to the site and assembled on site and they're surfaced with Hardy plank and there are 10 different colors and bay windows and a base to uh to break up the mass and the length of these blocks. Next. And then these are the uh projects that I've done with Joe Mound. Uh the brook and the Bronx for breaking ground which is for 100% affordable as well two projects for breaking ground. So they must have been happy with with one of them. And in each case they're urban buildings. This uh is a street wall building. And the idea of breaking ground is to have these supportive services, the common services uh assembled in the corner and to provide kind of landmark for the community. And the idea was that it's designed it's designed not to look
47:09affordable but to look uh like market rate housing because everyone should have a dignified place to live. And this is also in Boston Road and both of these uh won their AIA awards. America. And then this was done just completed last year for another uh nonprofit in the Bronx, Communal Life. And they uh they actually wanted a kind of Latin flare because it's in a Puerto Rican community. And they uh the colors relate not only to the logo in an abstract way, but to the ideas of uh Latin American u colors and of various flags of the countries. Next and this is uh by Ari if you want to mention uh so we wanted to show some uh lowerrise mid-rise projects some of what we're proposing tonight on the left you have on Fleetwood which is in Westchester County that's a market rate project uh comprised of four buildings adjacent to the Fleetwood train station on the right you have rearfield street
48:12in Brooklyn again that one that's also market right there a fourstory building that I think so you that was around the community and then uh from my experience in doing affordable housing for the last 25 years I uh co-edited a book called Housing Nation social equity architecture and the future of affordable housing that assembles uh 20 different essays by various experts everywhere from economics uh to uh racial issues use uh materials of sustainability and then a portfolio of projects uh at the end of the book. So I have a copy on the desk for the planning board for York next. And so in all our projects we always do re research into the history of the site and uh until now we've never really discussed how this project fits into the
49:14history of Hudson, New York. So as you know it was originally land of the Moheaggan Indians, the indigenous tribes. Uh then the Dutch uh had a small settlement here called Prior Landing. Uh and then in 1783 uh two uh proprietors from Nantucket and um New Bedford Whalers decided they would establish a a uh a city up at the end of the navigable part of the Hudson River uh to escape from the American if America didn't work out and the British came back to seize uh uh the New York City. So they picked a site that was a promontory that actually specifically for the south bay and the north bay and our site was originally at the extreme edge of the city and in fact that slope was the bluff overlooking North Bay. So our site uh is actually in the original uh sector of the city uh near the whale
50:20fishing docks over here. uh and from the beginning it was a very strict grid which had service alleys in between uh the main streets. So uh as uh Ron had said in between uh Warren and Diamond Street there were these service alleys not unlike Philadelphia. Uh next this 1838 that's the earliest map we found. This is 1848 when the railroad was put in and at that point that blocked the harbor and in fact people thought that that was the end of Hudson but it reinvented itself as an industrial town uh including cement factories which became controversial in the '9s as you know. Uh and again our site is right here and again you see the whole the city is about a grid a grid of streets and blocks. So uh that in fact is the problem with list tower. It's neither. It destroys the street and the block. Next uh these are just you know to show
51:22various uh maps of the city. 1851. Next. And this is uh 1871. And this is our site here. Again uh then at that point there was still a south and north bay although there were no docks there. Uh and then these are some projects. I mean they chose various buildings uh in Hudson um and engraved them to show kind of how you know illustrative buildings of the city next which are mainly masonry. So here we uh we have this tower which as you see sits uh apart from the street grid. It sits it's actually a good example of bad urbanism. So this is the bad urbanism. was based on uh modern architecture on the work of Lovousier who started the idea of he wanted to in fact he he wanted to to destroy this street which he thought was dark and uh and dingy and to create towers in the park that would be filled with sunlight
52:26air and green greenery and he called it the radiant city. So this is a good example of the bad urbanism. Um but as you see it's not uh has no relationship to the street. It's it's alone especially the uh land around it is in a sense left over. It has no definition and the lack of definition is part of the danger because there are no uh eyes on the street as the great urbanist Jane Jacobs talked about. And the idea of a great uh city or community like the uh the village in Manhattan or or uh Warren Street is that the people can watch what's going on in the city on the street and it makes it safer. So next and this is actually actually go back for one second. I want you to see this. This is actually literally uh taken from Kuzier's model from 1920. Next um of the radian city.
53:28So this tower is actually based on a Parisian model. So it has very little to do with Hudson. Uh and this was Lorrauzier in the uh the arrogant modern architecture gesture to impose his will on he in fact had planned to tear down the Marray district in Paris to build this. And that's and and then over time unfortunately most housing developments in the United States copied that model and they often fail because uh they became unsafe. They were not maintained properly and uh the climax of it was in 1972 when the uh project in St. Louis was literally blown up and demolished. So uh here we are today. Next So the idea of what we're doing uh is to bring back the streets and this shows how we're pulling the streets back. Uh
54:32buildings that we're doing are all street facing buildings each one of them. And uh they create a central green open space in the center. Um and so um now you mentioned the uh the alley here, but that actually hasn't been there for a long time as far as I know. However, and as you note, North First Street was not there, but we're proposing to bring it back. So that's that's one of the next. And again showing the uh the build out in phase two uh showing the the buildings that define the street. Uh and in relationship to the comprehensive plan uh it first should be noted that the first note and the comprehensive plan the very first thing is there should be more affordable housing in Hudson. In fact it's mentioned 130 times in the comprehensive plan. So and the second part is no displacement which we
55:34are not doing. Uh better open space which we fulfilled. Uh so I think uh what we're planning to do and sustainability you'll see we're planning uh solar panels on the roof and green roof as well. Next uh and we're really trying to bring back the bustling urbanism of Hudson. Uh we did some research. This is uh from a movie Odds Against Tomorrow tomorrow with Harry Belmont. It's not a very happy movie, but it's it is actually set in Hudson. And in in 1959 when uh Warren Street was filled with cars and and colleagues actually down the center. Uh and that's Mr. uh next. And uh I look to the uh the texture of the city on Warren Street to pull that into what we're doing and especially the scale and the use of uh brick and bay windows uh of a kind of dark green color which could be copper
56:40but that we're working on the materials right now. Next. And then also again the scale is broken down into uh these uh three we're doing fourstory buildings but they're in keeping with the general um height of of uh the city itself. And this is a very important diagram. This shows the uh the idea that the green open space should take its place along the uh asstead did in Boston the necklace of the emerald necklace of parks uh starting with the seventh street uh park and then the courthouse square the various uh pocket parks Charles William park and prominade park. So this is in fact the same size. It's at 1.6 m um and it could take it could be designed wonderfully um to become one of the great parks of the city. So I see
57:43this not simply as building the housing blocks but the park itself the green open space is a positive feature that would shape the city just as these uh parks are important to Hudson. Next. So this shows uh very graphically uh phase one and the problem with leaving a bliss tower. Uh and it shows the general uh concept of uh of breaking the mass down into smaller vertical parts with bay windows and vertical window and pairs of vertical windows to create a smaller scale that relates to uh the existing texture or fitting uh and also opening up first street here with parking on either side. And then this would be phase two. Um and then you can see the solar panels and the green roofs as well. And then the change in elevation. It's
58:48almost 15 ft actually from uh second street uh to uh first street down here. So that's a significant drop, but that relates to the whole nature of Hudson, which is on this promontory, which is why it was selected uh as a as a city overlooking the Hudson. Next, and these are some renderings we did to show the general's feeling and sensibility. Uh this would be phase two of the open park uh with the streetscape build, the street wall buildings defining the park. uh and also um small scale windows and bay windows at the living rooms uh and brick and party plank mixture to give texture and variety and to break up the mass of of these buildings. There would be the entrance, the main entrance here and then another entrance next. Uh oh, this is looking down State Street. And we had initially also talked about
59:51maybe pedestrianizing this, but that's that's a another conversation, but I think it's because I my office is on Broadway, which has been pedestrianized radle in the city. >> Lots in common with state street broadcast. >> Um, and then it shows where these views were taken on a little map here. Uh next uh and then this is the entrance to the um community center. So this activates the lower part of the building. Uh and it would be open and there's also a fitness center there and uh programmatically it could be worked out whether these things are open to the public or not. Uh but definitely the uh the uh community center would be a public amenity to create more social connection which is also mentioned in the comprehensive plan. Uh next, and this is looking down from the parking lot at uh First Street, looking up towards the community center and the
1:00:54main uh entrance here. Uh this still has parts of phase two. So I left the the townhouse blocks there. Uh next, and these are elevations that uh you can look at in more detail. And again the uh the main living rooms have the bay windows which also it gives the sense of expansion to the apartments and people can look down the street at either end again making it safer. Um next the other and next uh next and these are the plans again showing uh the entrance the main entrance lobby which is double height. So it's a very uh uh expansive space with seating on either side and that can also become a place of meeting not only for the uh residents but you know it could be open for events to the community as well and uh the entrance to the community room at the lower level
1:01:59here and the fitness center. Um next and then this is B1 and this is A. No, that was B1. This is A1 and A1 in the lower level has an entrance to the uh Hudson housing um authority uh housing authority the lower level and I think another uh next and this is just to recount again the whole history here because we had uh on September 17th, 2024 a open workshop at the housing authority to discuss and elicit um uh responses from the public from the residents although it was open to everyone I think as to how the uh the 1 and 12 acre space would be programmed. So, I, you know, I made a list of of, you know, 18 different ways of of using the park, including children's playground, uh, dog runs, uh, physical fitness areas. Uh,
1:03:04again, using the slope for an amphitheater or sledding, uh, and then next, um, and then people make comments and they posted the comments on board. I think you So there has been thought into this space for quite a while. Uh next oh and then this was just to show again uh a a very an important city in which the entire city is organized around the green space around the parks. So this was uh planned in 1733 around 22 car parks uh each of which is in fact the same size as the queen space of uh the bliss tower site. So again this is to show proportionally that you can do a lot with the green space that is available. Okay. And this just shows the various potential uses for the park.
1:04:16Um actually one interesting fragrance garden for visually and vegetable garden. So all right so that's basically the thank you Mr. comments or questions. What's the current brain space? >> Uh, really? Uh, I was going to say there's any. It's just the space around the towers. >> I don't think it's really planned. It's hard to act until. Yeah. So, sloping. >> I was just wondering if it's expanding if this is creating more space or >> It's creating more space because we're taking down the tower. that's taking up the space in the middle of the site. >> I understand that, but it's also being replaced by a building as well, a different shape. >> Uh, I would say we're definitely making more open space and the space that we're
1:05:21planning will be defined clearly, not it won't feel like leftover space, >> right? because a lot of the space now is also sloping down from the tower to the street >> and as well as not only from the tower but from the town houses. So it's really I would say most of it is not very usable. Um I I do remember there being some discussion about open like actually opening maybe even shifting building a that's the one that was kind of going behind evil's towers where right um shifting it to actually maybe in the future make it possible to reopen first street this allows for let's go back to >> it's a it raises a parking lot to me Well, it's a heartening mind, but I I think um it could be uh it could also be seen as a street. I think it needs to be designed. That's right.
1:06:24>> And I think uh your idea was to uh make it into a street, reestablish it. So to the west, any development that goes on would uh you could even have setbacks and say things have to be. The good news is there's no building that occupies that footprint. So it doesn't for it doesn't foreclose the opportunity at some future date to reopen the block across from Columbia City. >> Yeah, we don't own all that land over here, >> right? We don't own own all that land and the existing buildings um on Columbia Street are construction. It's a very tight location. So we can't move them until it's place and we have a little chicken and egg. So where the building sits right now, if we cannot relocate those pen during the circle, they can stay in place. And then on the flip side in the back, not enough land for both street, but that we don't own the land on the other side. >> Oh boy.
1:07:29I think it's municipal, right? This is housing. Yeah. >> But so it's by the city that it's a different development. >> Yeah. I'm looking at it overhead now. There's like no contiguous. You couldn't walk very easily. I guess you'd have to walk over some of the next. I'm just looking at Google Maps right now with that part. But >> yeah, >> so it does sort of read like a reopening of State Street, but it's not a road. >> But it wouldn't be ideal to be having parks and people backing out into a road, right? That's not ideal. >> Yeah, you have spots, right? Any other questions for Mr. Gro? Uh, >> can you talk about how I think you've indicated on some of the drawings, but
1:08:32it was actually hard for me to interpret the site plan how residents in all the buildings have access to the park or how I think even the phase two building. >> Uh, let's go let's go to the plan. Uh, no to the actual plan. But no. So uh this this is State Street here >> and the main entrance is here and so you would you would cross State Street here or you could enter from the uh community area which is also will be an exit from the interior
1:09:34but I mean all residents will have access directly to the park. I mean, close to the screen. >> I guess this might be an engineer question more than you, but is there any thought of establishing a crosswalk there? Like it feels like that's like a natural point between the park and that's there. >> Yeah, I think it would be. >> Yeah, that's easy enough. Yeah, I I space plan street parking but yeah. >> Yeah, I have a question. Um well I mean the pictures look very nice. Looks like images from the summertime but as regarding of course it gets cold eventually in Hudson. So the buildings will be well insulated in winter time. Oh, we need all state codes. Our combined guidelines are under New York State housing committee renewal. Very strict sustainability. Uh the buildings will be 100% electric. They won't be burning any fossil fuel. It meets all
1:10:37the requirements of the state. All the and also in addition to it, we will also have solar. We need it all. We have a hire master to answer all this. >> All the windows are double insulated. >> Yeah. and uh probably seated units in the the heating and air conditioning. >> Yeah, every room has its own heating and air conditioning. >> And then like in the event of like you know major snowstorms like you know 12 in and above I mean there would be like proper you know there'd be ways for residents to you know you know leave the building without you know too much disruption. Well, they live in my building now or thank God because you know responsibility that would be part of our management responsibility. >> I think I think this would be easier to plow now because it's not like you have to right now you have to walk up a hill >> if it's icy. That's that's it.
1:11:44other questions to the boards. This was a very helpful presentation thorough and since four of the board members are new, this was really helpful for process. I know that the the board members that have been around have seen more than we have. But I feel well well informed about the plan at this point and thanks again for participating. Thank you. We are now going to move into the third segment of our meeting and that's uh Andrew is going to take us through the next sequence process. Maybe I should just set the stage for everyone. You remember we were going over the part two of the seeker process last time. That's the long form EAF part two that contains those 18 uh potential impacts. >> Yeah, I need to actually define what you're talking about.
1:12:46>> I'll give you all catch up, >> but if you remember, it goes through questions whether there's an impact on land, the impact on geological features or two. >> I have a hard copy here. So >> part two >> like every time I'm like searching for >> so we all good to start here. So if you remember there were just the board answered a majority of these questions and found that no or small impact maker. However, there were I think four points that the board said we might need more information on and I understand the applicants submitted uh some information to that effect to board's request. So, I'll just go
1:13:48through some of our comments we had highlighted as go up to question 11 impact on open space and recreation. Uh question C, the proposed action may eliminate open space or recre recreational resource in an area with with you such resources. So I think we just heard some discussion about the open space from the presentation there. Does the board feel they have enough information about the open space the project to make a determination on that point? >> Yeah. Was there a subsequent submission? I that's just I guess like don't I don't remember like where our gap in living was last time information. >> I'm surprised that we more information. >> Yeah. So I guess I I don't remember what the what you thought was Yeah, >> I think I think you have brought it up. >> This is the worst episode.
1:14:51Well, I think it was a little unclear what was replacing some of the stuff that's one of the comments I heard was quarantine. >> Yeah, actually there's there's been like an excellent update since >> because I had have a concern about the phase between phase one and phase two. >> Yeah, I think that's was addressing your question was that parking area would become a temporary playground or recreation. >> Yeah. And I think as a result I I think incredibly created great great solution. >> Yeah. >> Is this cover both phases of this part of the ESC? >> Yeah. Inclusive the hall phase of the project as fully constructed. >> So we can take into consideration the the green space that talked about between the buildings. >> I have no all good on that point. So I'll move on to the next. So we answered no or still on. >> So I'll move on to the next one. That's prompt 13 sub point D. The proposed action will
1:15:54degrade existing pedestrian or bicycle accommodations. And my comment note there was the board requested additional information regarding the pedestrianization of State Street and potential traffic pattern changes. I don't think we got >> I think that the pedestrianization of State Street has been taken off. >> Yeah, that's what I kind of too. >> That was my understanding as well. And I think some of the confusion might be some of the narratives in the portal are older narratives that might still suggest that's still part of the case. But it be I think it'd be good to hear from the applicants if that's still to Mr. Chair, members of the board. For the record, my name is John Cannon. I work for Kim Moore. I'm a traffic engineer and a licensed professional engineer. So we performed two traffic studies for this project. One without pedestrianization of State Street. So we assumed all 276 units would replace the 135 are there and the street network would stay the same as it is. And then
1:16:56the second one because we're considering Seeker, we want to make sure we cross uh all our tees dollar eyes and cover all the bases. assumes all 276 um apartments are built replacing the 135 and assumes that state street is pedestrianized so you can no longer drive along it. Uh I'm not saying that that's going to happen but we have evaluated the potential traffic impact of pedestrianization from a a traffic perspective. Obviously if you're a pedestrian you could still walk on State Street. It would divert a 100 vehicles in the busiest hour from State Street over to Columbia Street. Our intersection capacity analysis indicated that all intersections would operate at level of service B or better. In fact, all of them would be level of service A except one. I can't remember which one. Level of service runs from A, which is the best like in school to F, which is not so good. Um the greatest increase in delay would be on the order of a second and a half except for when you come southbound out of North First Street
1:18:00onto um where it intersects with with um State Street now. Um I think that's it. North >> Columbia. >> Yeah, because we're pushing traffic over there. We go from 1.4 seconds to 7.5 seconds, which is inconsequential. So in short, we've analyzed it without pedestrianization. We've analyzed it with pedestrianization. There's no potential impact. The there the the applicant is not applying at this stage to do pedestrianization. It's not applying to do phase two. It's just looking for a seeker clean bill of health that if it applies in the future and a future board determines that pedestrianization is a good thing. I'm not saying whether it is or not. that the seeker aspect of it as to whether it would have an impact on traffic has already been addressed. >> Thank you. >> Right. The the report said it would be imperceptible the like just the current traffic load, right? >> Yes. It was about one car per minute or
1:19:02something. That's correct. >> Yeah, that was a good way to look at it. >> Yeah. >> But the secret the evaluation we're doing tonight is based on a non-pedestrian state street. So we we've we evaluated it both. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So >> but the plan currently shows it as stay. >> Plan shows it as stay. It's not being applied for. But if it were applied for the future, we'd looked at it. So while we have you, I'd love to ask about your concern whether or not the parking lot that extends north from First Street >> Yeah. becomes an ad hoc street because people are trying to do a shortcut from Columbia to stay and now you've got a competing use with parks are backing out sure and other people driving through. So um the the answer is it's not a concern of mine and the reason is there's really nothing on State Street. If you go down State Street, you've got the existing Bliss Tower and you've got playground on the right. Once you get beyond First Street, on the
1:20:05right side, it falls off into the I think what's down there is the sewage treatment plant. And on the left side, there's a hill that backs up to all of the houses, but they're is their backyards. You can't even climb up there. So, no, I don't think anybody really wants to go there. >> So, but from a perspective of, you know, if I want to go for a quiet walk with my dog, >> Yeah, sure. >> It's great. That's what I was >> I would I would say that this is a negative impact. >> Yeah. >> In fact, I think it improves uh circulation. >> It gives us a someone like walking another yeah point of crossing that block. >> Folks agree that would be what I'd suggest. Okay. >> Okay. So based on that board will find no or small impact on transportation. And then moving on to the next one 14 sub A. The proposed action will require new or or an upgrade to an existing substation. My note here was board inquired whether an electrical update is required. The
1:21:09applicant was to provide a load letter from the utility and provide the building square foot calculation in rel in relation to heating the cooled. This was engineered some potentially. >> Well, that that would be how you would be able to determine that. You need to know how much power you're using so you know how much surplus power there is in the grid. >> That's not something we can provide. It would need to be provided by the applicants. >> Um what the applicant speak on that? >> Yeah, I don't think we have a little better yet, but I I think uh the point is is what is currently there is obviously outdated and not as energy efficient. what will be proposed will have to meet the New York State Energy Code and all the requirements. And I think the architect and Joel had kind of went into some of the factors as far as the the u the energy star of the new multifamily construction. So um the code has obviously been changed and updated over the last 30 40 years and back over the last couple
1:22:10years the code has been much more strict and stringent. So I I think the at the end of the day there's probably not going to be much of an impact. There's obviously a lot more building space, but the building's going to be much more efficient. >> The question specifically, it's not like it's it's do we need a new substation or do we know that? Yeah, >> that I I I can't answer that, but we'll have to get back to you on that. Again, is a multif family development. It's not an industrial. It's not a data center, you know. It's just a typical I believe we file for the low. >> I think we have to reply. >> Okay. >> Just to add to >> Well, based on what the board has, if if it feels comfortable determining that no or small impact would occur from based on what the applicant is stating here, it's going to be an energy efficient building. they're applying for the or that have applied for the load letter. And uh the board should also be mindful that this is just one question out of
1:23:15>> 14 in this impact on human health uh section and the board no or small impact on all >> Yeah, the grid is huge. What what powers the city? So I think we're talking about a drop in the bucket of that if and that's more of a big statement but without numbers that's the best I can offer. I'm looking for the AF because I know there was questions on that. See if they answered that any more specific. >> I'm also trying to contextualize some of these other like 2500 megawatt hours per year of electricity or like using that proposed action involve heating and cooling 100,000 square feet of building area. What's those are things I think we didn't know like the square footage of the building area. >> Yeah, that was the other question. If I remember you last meeting was like whether we were in above or below 100,000 square feet. >> I think we are above 100,000 buildings. Yes. >> And I think that's why that's why you check the box
1:24:19driving forces to a type one action 100,000 square feet. Okay. Based on our engineers observation, it doesn't sound like this is an issue. >> And there's also the the fact that the electric company has the required to serve you. So if they if they need to upgrade their equipment, which they'll have to do eventually with all the solar cars and everything anyway, and just progress, they will have to update stuff eventually. Would this project be the catalyst to that? I personally doubt it. All right. And again, this is just one point of consideration in the section about the impact. Apparently 2500 megawatt hours is enough energy to power 350 US households according to. So, are we okay with this?
1:25:26>> And that's that's how many totals are there? But there's already how many existing there. >> So, that's really not adding that whole number to be >> I think that's I wondered the same thing about the square footage. I don't think we're adding >> 100,000 more square feet there from Bliss. No, it's comparison. Remember, you're taking the power that you had at Bliss. Now, you're moving that quantity over probably amount an engineer probably pretty close. I and also that we the project proposals to put solar on the roof actually really clean project and so I think we should say >> yeah between updated fixtures and solar on the roof there's a lot of potential for using less >> but until somebody puts the numbers on it it's hard to say >> and I mean the electric electricity electricity usage that is proposed you know some of the narrative using eons instead I think will probably be more electricity usage but like wayer as a result >> I suspect Unless there's objection, I would recommend this being a good. >> Okay, moving on. One more point. 16.
1:26:30Impact on human health. There's a completed emergency spill remediation or a completed environmental site remediation on or adjacent to the site of the proposed action. There's just my notes says the board expressed concern about the brownfield status. I think that was touched on tonight. I don't know if board has any additional questions about that that were not previously answered. Applicant wants to speak. >> Sorry. There was also good description in the part three that was offered about how the brownfield site works would happen and how the monitoring the environmental monitoring will happen during construction for all the BC departments. >> So based on that, how does the board do you okay with that? Um you are you from your perspective make it seem like a good plan did it seem like a good plan but I I'm not >> well the plan is vague right now it's not a specific plan on how they're doing remediation that'll be between them and the DC but the fact that they're acknowledging DC oversight on it that they need the permits and all the right
1:27:33things have to be done for that then that we know the DEEC is going to have a proper oversight. >> Awesome. So that those were all my notes from the part two of the EA. So is the board satisfied with our part two review? Any further comments on that? Because after part two, the board can turn to part three and potentially issue a determination of significance. Now, in connection with potential determination of significance, there was a draft part three narrative as the board seen andor reviewed that narrative provided. And just to go over what that is, that's uh worked on by the applicant, our engineer, and legal side of it. It goes through it gives a detailed analysis of these 18 points of consideration. It sets forth how the board may determine that no significant adverse impacts will be had on each of those. I think it is 18.
1:28:36Yeah, 18 points. >> Are we talking about file loaded on 514 draft on part three? Yes. I wasn't able to >> I don't I don't think so. >> It's still working. Yeah. Okay. >> Well, I'll just start going over a bit. It's kind of a long documentary pages. It it goes through each section with a bit more of a fine tooth comb and speaks on some potential impacts that the board raised and identified and further addresses how they will not be an impact or prevent significant adverse impact on the land. So based on if the board agrees with the content therein, then it would potentially be proper for the board to
1:29:40go ahead and issue a determination of significance on the project or are we ready to fix action? >> And before I go that far, I'll see if our engineer has any comments. >> There were some minor comments I added to it. Very minor comments. One was about the flood planes where they said there was no hundredy year or 500y year flood plane on the site where it looked like a small portion of the corn site did have a 500y year flood plane on it which isn't a major issue because there's no buildings in it and there'd be no impact to it. So that was just a clarity wording matter for that. And then if I could just see this eagles >> eagles. >> Um the impact on plants and animals. We wanted to look at a little harder and add some more language in there that we took out of a DEC letter that kind of concluded a lot of the the species that are flagged as potential endangered species. A lot of them are sturgeon and water-based creatures that there's no water on the site, so there's no concern with that. And then the two that we needed to look at a little closer was a paragan falcon and the bald eagle. and the letter from the DEC that was
1:30:42response to our lead agency spoke to that and said that there's no nest nearby and they had no concern with that. So, that's something that's in the file and that we added some or suggested some language to be added to this to specifically reference that letter. >> Some reason I can't get this part to load >> this. >> Yeah. And the one last thing I think I mentioned on that one more >> sure >> I just didn't know if when we talk about the impact on aesthetics resources if the planning board wanted to talk about how they review the architectural lighting the landscaping and other presentations and found anything specific that's nothing we have none of these things are things you need to add but it's things if you want to put it on the record this is your formal record that says you took a hard look and shows what you took a hard look Well, I think an architecture board
1:31:46created a thorough five-page set of issues, questions, and topics that we wanted to be reported on. Uh they reported both in a thorough written statement uh and it was very responsive and then Mr. presentation tonight and um so that is I think a topic that's been well handled and well covered. >> Do you want to put wording in something that you found you know that you found what kind of conclusion you had? Do you want to put that wording or do you leave it as it was drafted? That's really up to you. >> And I left it blank for you. >> I don't think we should have pine on the design because that's outside of the scope and guard. So we could just nix that comment and it would stand the alone time fine without it. Michael, >> this is impacts on aesthetic resources. I propose to add a comment that said the pling board has reviewed the architecture, lighting, landscaping presentations provided and found. I wanted you all to put your your wording in there if you wanted to.
1:32:48>> This isn't on you're looking at this is not >> this is something I added too. I I had these minor suggestions like track changes and shared them just before the meeting with the with the chairperson. So, I have it here if you want to take a look at it, but I pretty much just read it for these are these are choices I'm offering you to make this record stronger. >> I'm sorry. Where where are the char changes? That's the part I'm Is that wrong? >> I think it only got emailed to the the legal group. I didn't >> This was today. >> Okay. >> This was today. >> Um, so I have no idea because I So, yeah. >> Your suggestion is that it would make our determination stronger. If you wanted to say some specific thing you found about the aesthetics, >> if you wanted to, that's not up to you. I feel a little more strongly about editing the flood plane language, which is very minor, and the species. >> Yeah, >> that's the main thing that I think is worth putting. I think all we can say about aesthetics is that the applicant has been responsive to the board, thorough, they provided a wholesome and transparent overview of the overall
1:33:54plans for the funings or for the project. I just don't feel like we need to be making architectural record judgments about the design and and I believe they've responded in many ways to the comprehensive plan and they have responded in many ways to the character and nature both scale and uh density of of of architecture in the city. Those are permanent comments that I which you're comfortable with, but I don't want to say that buildings are pretty and we really think they're you have to add anything to it. >> Proposed action will not introduce visual elements fundamentally incompatible with the surrounding neighborhood context as shown in the proposed elevation plans. >> That's that's right. Is the board happy with removing that uh potential addition just proceeding as is? Because ultimately you're just determining that there's no significant
1:34:56adverse impact to the aesthetic resources by virtue of prep. I feel a little silly about not seeing the red line and I wonder if it's possible. >> It's here if you really minor. >> I'm sure it's featured. >> Yeah. >> And I want to just give it give a place for the board to put in extra input because this was good. This was prepared by the applicant's terms. >> This was prepared by anybody, but we reviewed it. We agreed with everything but we thought we could add some language to it. >> Most of these minutes I saw your review. Yes, they they then make comments we put in our >> Yes. >> And then that part about the surgeons and the legal >> and that just just that clarified >> and then this is so what just to just for the planning board has reviewed the architectural writing right now which is kind of a repeat of what was said as showing >> and that's fine. I just wanted to make sure you guys all clear with what
1:36:00>> and then there's consistency with plans. >> It says see this is not anticipated result in significant back to consistency of does anyone want to see >> are you okay with this? Okay. I would entertain a motion issue negative determination of significance for this project. Anybody ready to make that move? Okay. We have a motion to issue a negative determination of significance for the project. Is there a second? >> Second. >> And we'll give it to unless you guys want to argue about it. Uh, would you call the vote? >> Black. >> Uh, I >> absent. Chairman Bogle. >> Yes.
1:37:03>> Nate. Nathan. >> I. >> Yes. Okay. The motion pass and the determination has been made. Um, one last item to consider for this meeting and that's whether or not we're ready to schedule a public hearing. Uh, I circulated dates and earlier and received some responses. You know, the 20th was not available because conflicting meetings, but we're looking at either the 21st or the 22nd of July. Um let's just take a moment and look at our calendars and Jeff on behalf of your group are those dates available for for you >> second Tuesday >> and it would be so what I'm proposing is a one night uh public hearing uh but a 10day open window for anyone who might want to write a letter or response. So it would be extended from July either
1:38:07the 21st 22nd through the end of the month basically. And what we have to determine tonight is the actual date and the meeting location. Linda has to check the availability of the fire station and they available in those two months. >> Okay. >> Andrew, you remember the the the notification requirement, the time we have enough time to do the notifications for public? Yeah, this for July we'll be fine. Okay, >> we'll get it posted and >> any applicable notice any referrals in anticipation of the meeting and I think what we have to refer this to the county again obviously and circulate the determination of significance to all the lead agencies and interested agencies. Is there consensus around the day the 21st or the 22nd? My preference would be the 21st. All right. Uh, I'd entertain a motion to schedule the public hearing for July 21st at July or July. >> 5:30.
1:39:22>> Uh, so July 21st, 6 p.m. to be confirmed by the fire the fire station. Should we say to >> I I think we should say fire station and then if it gets changed we would update the notice accordingly because there is time before it has to get posted and we'll provide proper notice. So 6 p.m. I'd entertain a motion of a public hearing for the HHA project July 21st 6 p.m. Fire stations and the public hearing will be open for 10 days to receive any written communication from the public. Motion has been made. Nathan then she okay seconds and please call the role >> Miss Black I shy >> I hi
1:40:23>> Miss Cro Mr. Michaelson happy tonight. >> Yes. >> I wanted to I could we talked a little bit just for the new board members purpose like what the format of the public hearing will be and mostly I'm actually really interested in and Peter was as well. We talked about this after the last meeting having more of a public discussion about what it means to repair the harms of urban renewal. I've heard a lot about this in terms of restoring the built urban form. I think stably rehousing all the residents of Bliss Towers Towers is the most significant way to repair the harms of urban renewal as well as frameworks that are outlined in the comprehensive plan are largely not architectural. They're about creating and preserving affordable housing and creating policies like a right to return. So I just wondering if that was like is does the board have as a public hearing just for the public or does the board also speak or do you have a chance to have that dialogue in another place? It's it's generally just
1:41:25the public raising their comments with the board because obviously as you see we don't have public comment every night and so specifically about the project public hearing is about. >> So the board public bring up any comments they see fit but the board is not guiding the public hearing and it's not exactly a back and forth. Normally people have a set amount of time, right, >> to get up there and raise their points, address it with the board, >> right? >> And the board can gather information through these public hearings. Sometimes get some new facts for consideration, the board take it, consider it. >> I hope that answers your question. >> That makes sense. I really was just Peter and I were interested in having dialogue about that in public >> and ultimately we need the applicants team to respond to the comments so that they're addressed. We can talk. >> Thanks for raising that issue and unless it's the business before the planning board tonight, I would take a motion to return this. Just make sure one more procedural question. Did do you have to
1:42:26make a motion to refer to county planning or is that some >> that normally it's administrative action unless this board normally does motion. >> So if do a motion then please would you give us the wording please? Uh, someone should move to refer the application to the Colby County Planning Board. >> Nathan is making that motion. Second, >> change seconds. Linda will call rule. Thank you for pointing that out. Thank you. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Michael, >> yes. >> So, we will see HHA back in our June meeting to continue the discussion on engineering issues. But as far as other issues, I think that that's the only remaining open um open issue. So, thank you all for giving your evening and for participating in the meeting. Thank you from the planning board. Now, I'll take a motion to adjourn. Thank >> you. We're not quite
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