Historic Preservation Commission, Regular Meeting

1. 0:02Just join. Thanks, Tiffany. Okay, I'm in
2. 13:46Can we bring ice? >> Good morning. That's >> No, I'm going to get out of Good morning. Can we raise can we declare victory on the forum? Yes. Okay. Uh I'll just wait for Jen to bring in folks online. No, Josh. >> Josh is on, but it looks like he's um
3. 14:50not completely connected. Yeah. >> Hi. Can you hear me? >> Can we do a quick roll? >> Yes, I heard you. Josh, >> thank you. Jeremy >> or Barry >> and John >> Jonathan. That's our old call meeting called voters. >> Okay. Uh 10:01 and uh first up we have the uh review vote on the draft from July. >> Motion you and I >> and John. All three. All in favor? >> Minutes are approved. Thank you. so much. >> You're welcome. Um, okay. And we just have one CFA to vote. [clears throat] >> Uh, thank you, Attorney Palidoro. Uh, it's 35 South Third Street and this was for the, uh, Wild Coffee House is, uh, new owners and they are replacing like for
4. 15:55like a 3x5, pardon me, internally illuminated hanging sign. I [clears throat] think it's called do coffee roaster. >> Yeah, it's the same sign illuminated as it was and it's just been changed. >> Yeah, yes. >> Uh motion on that. You have your hand up and John is a second. All in favor of approving the CB approved. >> Thank you. And then we have uh uh 402 404 and this is the Hudson Public Awnings. And um good morning Josh. >> So what was the drama on that? Jim, where were we? >> Um well >> looking for some separation of the 2011. >> They wanted um renderings with out. >> Got it. >> She did provide. >> So Josh uh I have a couple of uh renderings. I have rendering one and two and then I have uh which which would you like me to
5. 16:58share? >> I mean I believe we covered the first ones for the most part. Uh the third one I had shared was based on the request at the last hearing to see the retracted retractable awnings projected. >> Right. Okay. >> So that's depicted in that newer rendering. Did you all see the historic photos that Paul Barrett found? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. >> They were very cool. >> Yeah. >> Oh, they're cool. >> Okay. So, let's >> I'm going to I'll share this one first. >> Uh I believe that is this >> that's when they're >> Yeah, that was depicting the retractable ones. Uh retracted. >> Okay. And then um this is the inset one. Um >> the fixed one. And then was there one more?
6. 18:01>> There was one of the uh fourth street side of the building that I had shared initially as well. >> See? Oh, this was this it? Yes. Now, this is the Warren Street. Is this the Warren Street one? >> Yeah, that's the one that we're looking at. >> Yeah. Let me just Okay. >> Yeah. I think the question last time is would they extend beyond the fixed ones or not? Cuz they could >> just by one foot. So the fixed ones were intended to be uh 4T projection and then the retractable ones would have 5 foot projection. >> So it would create kind of a dentilated approach across the front if they're all >> When was the last time you dentilated? >> I don't I [laughter] don't know that. I like that. It's I I think he had spoken now that uh it would be nice to
7. 19:04break it up a bit as it was done back in the day. >> Yeah. >> So, uh the ventilation that's got me at home. >> Uh is there anything else you want me to share? Uh Josh? >> No, I mean that's all the materials I have. >> Okay. Uh so so so this is a rendering of um >> Warren Street. >> Street. >> Warren Street. Yes. That's the other side. It's just that front right there of Warren that we were looking for. The other one was a fixed one. So the rendering is just showing those wider ones which were the retractables extended which is what the uh council asked for. You know, I understand and I saw the I saw the Instagram photo and [clears throat] I understand the this this does look attractive. It does diminish your ability to appreciate the majesty of that corner building, right?
8. 20:06Like it just it it it I I can see why finds it attractive rendering, but you're missing, you know, that remember that at least part of that used to be a series of marble plasters that were covered over there. there, you know, there's some argument for for not having and that is like they look great. Everybody look rather chunky. Also, when these age, they're not going any ability to, you know, let we make sure they don't age. But, um, I mean, it's not it's just, you know, that's just >> any other comments or opinions. Well, I mean that that may be true, but uh you know there's a lot of other autumns on Orange Street, >> so I don't know how we >> Well, I mean, is there 200 linear feet of them? I mean, or whatever. >> There's a um I I I think we've been through this
9. 21:10multiple times. There's good precedent for this and I think the applicant responds to our request. Uh, I'd like a motion to find the application completed this morning. Jeremy Miranda. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Application's not complete. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I I do have um the measurements that Josh, you provided us with the measurements. Let's keep going. >> Okay. Sorry. Uh, >> a motion to wave a public hearing and request the city attorney to prepare a bay. Jeremy and Miranda. All in favor? >> Are there any opposed? >> Uh motions carried. >> Well, how Sorry. Can you just record the vote? I can't see everyone. >> I don't need I think you need We need four. >> Uh we've got one, two, three, four. There we go. Uh so John, if you want to stay
10. 22:12>> Okay. Uh, we've got four votes in favor. That's carried. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Um, [sighs] >> and next up we have uh, >> thank you all for your time. >> Yes. Thanks for being we bounced back and forth a little bit, but you did good. >> No worries. Have a good day. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh and next up we have 228 Allen Street and our applicant is here in person. >> Uh good morning. >> Good morning. >> Um I thank you for taking me up to last minute. I spoke with uh CEO Mr. Fox yesterday and uh thank you so much. Um I'm back uh for I guess two main reasons. One is uh we submitted an application actually was 2024 copy of our drawings um that we wanted to make a
11. 23:18minor adjustment to the fence appearance and speaking with Mr. Fox wanted to present that to this group and then he reminds me on the original COVID that we agreed to show you sort of spec sheets of the windows and doors. um the one minor adjustment we made because that as we built it we um had a window in the uh easterly facing um facade but did not know that didn't really think it was um useful. It was definitely different from the original one. So we simply didn't do that this side right here. Right. >> Correct. >> Yeah. So you were going to add a window in right there but you decided not to at this point. >> That's correct. And again showing our airline virtual drawing. >> So uh Clark what what what is new in your present? >> Um the new thing in the design um is our special for one door I have a couple copies of show you. There's a
12. 24:22interior door which is really sort of a French door and there's garage door which again as we noted in the CFA um we would send um or present um the actual look of the doors that we're choosing I have copies of those there again the interior is in the courtyard really not visible to the street but as a courtesy of course that it's there >> you have any more copies or Jen's going to >> Oh I don't have uh I don't have online copies, but I I do have the fencing. >> I do have some fencing that you had included in the email. >> That's correct. >> Um, so I I just maybe we should just step back and and this for those of you uh 228 Allen, this was the plan for the demolition of the garage. Um and the demolition of the the um I guess the other sheds.
13. 25:28>> Yeah. So I can just summarize our plan which was approved was to save the big guy. You can see the exterior there and there was a a coing series um garages that were and we have demolished those green. So, we saved the original big guy that's there and we're open to go take a look at it's almost done. And then we demolish the small guys all the way across and that's now extra yard for us to plant. And really didn't change. We're asking for now is the is the change to the um to the fence [clears throat] look. And then again I altered the um pages on the um of the doors that we will install. Mhm. >> Um, so if I may, um, on his original, um, renderings that he submitted to HPC, the fence was a vertical slats and the privacy lattice cross. Um, and now he wants to go with horizontal slats and
14. 26:35horizontal privacy slats above that. um which isn't a major change um and probably right there is what he wants to probably more historically accurate my opinion. >> So the original application was this the cross-hatching and uh was part of Ca approval and now he wants to do vertical sliding cars. That looks good to me. >> Okay. There there all events. Is there anything else we need to >> talk about? I mean, as long as you >> Yeah, they're appropriate to say the director. >> They're not They're actually very nice. >> One more time. We a bit if it's push or not, but we wanted to also do the fence will be the same per that design, but we
15. 27:38want to do entrance way, but it's not going to change the appearance. >> That's fine. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, as a matter of process, I do we do need an application. I mean, it's fine to move it forward today, but we're going to have to have an application before the CFA is voted on. but had Ca um and it was contingent upon him showing us uh the windows and doors that he wanted, which is uh what he's doing now. >> Right. But now this is a new application to amend the fence. Once once the CFA is voted on, it's done. And then any change, you just need a new application because we'll lose track. This was Yeah, we'll lose track of all these changes without the paperwork, >> right? >> We'll get we'll get you guys an application for it. >> Right. So, this this was the application that is part of our package that we approved and was signed and stamped and the condition as officer Fox said was to provide the specs for windows and doors
16. 28:41which our applicant has done. And it's simply a design change for the fence that what they what we improved was the boundary fence. So instead of cross-hatching, it's now slats. >> Victoria, >> yeah. >> Are you okay if we if we move forward or uh >> Yeah, move forward. That's fine. I just was saying for the next meeting, let's just get it papered out properly. >> We run it all the time. We look at stuff that seems very great. We can't find it. There wasn't enough. I get it. Uh so uh we can move on this and vote on the CFA in two weeks, but uh you need to provide and work with officer deox to get a actual application as Victoria stated in his file. Sorry, Clark, but we do need the >> you know, I really appreciate being here now quicker than I thought. Uh so uh >> given the fact that there will be a complete application, can we vote to find the complete?
17. 29:44>> Yes. >> Or is that >> I mean you have all the information you need so that's fine. >> Okay. May I have that motion to you? >> Yeah. >> And a second. Jeremy, all in favor? >> I. >> And again contingent on everything falling into place, can we wave the public hearing? >> Yes. Uh Jeremy and Hugh first and second. All in favor. Are there any objections? No. >> You're done for a while. Just work with the officer. >> Thank you guys. >> I know I'm trying to put the car before audience. >> Also, Clark. Hey, if you could just add like a drawing or something of what the gate's going to be just for the record. >> Sure. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> What's next? Uh that is our meeting. Um we do have uh on the agenda the 11 Warren Street um update if there's anything. >> Okay, >> we've got a whole lot to update. I've got a couple of uh uh business items. I'll I'll roll in with that. There are
18. 30:51uh term limits expiring uh which is a real thing. Uh Miranda 73126, Jeremy 73126, Paul 73126, and Cara who came in on an existing term uh 73126. Uh the mayor has to approve and swear you guys in. And Jim, how do how do you suggest they proceed? Should they go through the mayor aid or or through the clerk? >> Um, I think through Tiffany. I got an email from the mayor. >> I got an email from the mayor saying my term was up and >> Okay. So, guys, is that clear? You got to get in touch with Tiffany and get that taken care of. Tiffany Mark. >> Yeah. And and I can I just saw her. She They're out for a few hours for meeting, but I can just remind her to send >> Okay. Also this morning and just just do
19. 31:54it. I think you can just do it on your next meeting. Yeah. >> If you're going to be the the next we're going to give the next meeting a vote, then you just do it on your way. >> Oh, nice. >> You don't have to like >> Okay. >> But they they do please do send notice to Tiffany to get this in process. >> Mhm. Okay. >> What's next? I'm >> sorry. It was Jeremy. Jeremy. Sorry. It's Jeremy, Paul, and Cara. email to all of us are all expiring from expiring. The term is expiring, >> right? So, you have to send like a a notice that you would would like to stay on and request that. Yeah. Request renewal of your term. >> Agree. And that's a good point. It's not a given. We serve at the pleasure of the mayor. You have to ask uh on uh on 11 Warren um
20. 32:56we're kind of where we were. uh it's very difficult the existing code to kind of uh reach out to make stuff happen until there's an application for exterior work uh that goes to officer Fox that becomes the trigger event right uh so uh I don't think anything has come in that will begin the critical process in the meantime I think it would be helpful Whether or not there's real or imaginary ambiguity uh about the requirements for the county, I'm going to seek the uh mayor support andor both the common council president to to support officer Fox uh in um uh moving forward with uh the county to present preservation commission. Uh but
21. 33:59he needs that trigger event as you probably do to work with. Uh I think you probably saw in the gossip there's a uh state law uh referred to commonly as something like the Monroe Balancing Act. Uh it is >> gossips. I brought that up at the meeting but go on. >> Okay. [laughter] Can I reframe? There is a state law brought up by city attorney Victoria Polyor. [laughter] >> Thank you. that that was reported in Gus. Uh that if you look through the questionnaire uh in in terms of the county steps on this building and the impact on on lower Warren Street uh and the historic district uh could be a violation of the state law. Uh, I'm going to take an attempt with uh the assistance of
22. 35:04uh whoever wants to help me with it of actually filling that out uh and getting that to city hall and propose [clears throat] to city hall that the uh count is in violation of state law relative to uh that uh that balancing act. Uh I I think it may be helpful. it may not be helpful, but I think it's really worth doing and it's worth using in our uh toolkit. Uh I also had a conversation with someone who's very familiar uh with other opportunities for housing. Do you remember the name of what that's called? you were in the discussion with our friend uh the Paul's friend the architect Jip >> oh Ezra >> Ezra she has a fair amount of expertise working in other places in the state uh and outside of the state uh on on Rhode
23. 36:10Island >> uh in Massachusetts and Provintown and so on uh with a vehicle for uh enabling people to get both protection and potentially some subsidy uh if they for example were to convert uh a building on the alleys to uh a family occupancy or even a straight up rental entrance. Uh, one of the things we struggle with is that, uh, folks are are sometimes styied by what to do with alley garages and so on. Uh, and often enough, they kind of do nothing and the thing deteriorates. This may give us another tool to help people find a solution
24. 37:15that will uh make it easier for them to have family members in that uh structure or uh rent it out for income. Uh and it may also be a vehicle as we look into it uh to find other ways to develop uh affordable housing. in Hudson. >> There are grants available right now from the state I believe uh to put in ADUs in your word. That's what I was that was what I was looking for. >> Accessory values. Um however, in Hudson, um our codes think that you can only add an ADU if it's a single family home, which uh in a lot of cases they're not. Um if the ancillary building or the primary home, the primary building has to be a single family home.
25. 38:17The it has to be owner occupied as well. Um um there's a couple more stipulations that are coming to my mind right now. Um, but and but there are grants from uh of course you need to meet certain income qualifications to get these ones, but I think you can get up to like $140,000. >> We're having a bit of a housing crisis and and if we can find another tool to offer people, it would be great. So, uh, if you all are okay with it, I'm going to try to put together, uh, some kind of presentation on that. So, the commission is informed, uh, we're uh, uh, consistent with what officer Fox needs uh, when he talks to folks and and maybe it is at least another tool in our toolkit for
26. 39:21announcing. >> Let me ask this. Is your is your purpose for this group to say you know, there's a way to sensitively increase the number of housing units in Hudson that doesn't that doesn't um impact negatively our store character in the district. >> Correct. Okay. lending our our voice to the [snorts] the that we are not we are not by defacto against 80 years when they're done appropriately they're done with appropriate character I think that's right >> and and there are apparently there are um for this architect she worked um specifically she worked out in Long Island somewhere like Sag Harbor >> I think it was Sag Harbor another small city or town where the ADU's um because the it's really about the ADU code um and the the restriction um at least in
27. 40:25in Sag Harbor and another town I remember um was a certain percent um and I think it exists in Hudson now of um the Airbnb issue and all that but this this would be really taking trying to leverage some of the um neglected utility alley dwelling units which are if you walk any of the alleys they're falling you know people just demolition by neglect and really trying to find a path for them to get some money um to be able to fix it up and then maybe even rent it and there are restrictions so it would be not a short-term rental it would be >> it would be housing >> yes >> it can't be short-term rental >> I I think that I mean, you can see that uh I I'm sure you read that the city is looking for some revisions to iter. Uh I think this would not be a terrible time for us to look at uh 169 uh as well as uh working with uh
28. 41:30planning specifically to review their um uh legal code. at [clears throat] the same time uh to open the door for right now uh planning, preservation and uh uh >> are are written up as uh sort of semi autonomous silos. >> Mhm. where there's very little reference to how we could or should collaborate in bringing uh separate different but equally relevant skills >> to a project. uh and one of the results is uh somebody goes to planning or zoning and say, "Well, this this uh this use is okay and six stories is wonderful and so on and so forth." And it's it's
29. 42:35it's a it's it's full. The notion that uh the historic district over time is going to be surrounded by highrises makes no sense. If we are so careful and specific and thoughtful about the the the experience of Hudson in the historic district and we're surrounded by uh tall buildings >> over time that basically make it look uh like I'm in a lawn. Uh that makes no sense. I I think there has to be a way for preservation to participate [clears throat] on uh major projects uh particularly uh very tall structures into the district. >> I think I think this is a great time for
30. 43:37that. Go ahead. >> I'm sorry I couldn't see. I think there's a great time for that advocacy. I think also, you know, there's if we're going to clean up if we're going to clean up some things that were were not done when the charter was created and you should also look at a few districts that that we that and I think there's very compelling evidence about what we have done over the last 15 20 years and what we could do well like we could look at worth look at we can look at 8 street we can look at state like these areas that just are considered not valuable as part of the historic district. They clearly are, right? So, no one forsaw what what we're dealing with now. And let's let's let's make let's maybe make a case for that, right? >> I mean, we just had a house down on Short Street, which wasn't historical, but was clearly a >> that was that was taken down. >> Yeah.
31. 44:37>> Okay. As we drove by, >> I think that's right. I think there's a there's this could be this this doesn't have to be a hammer and this could be a whatever. Yeah, it doesn't have there's a way to make there's a way it's there's a there's there's a way to make the case for the work we've done and the results that that everyone is participating in as part of the the the Hudson. And then there's also a way to make the case that, you know, we do a good job and and and look at without saying it, but look at what happens if we're not part of it. Right. >> Something that might be fun for you guys to do for the alleyways is to come up with some kind of guide book or pattern book of, you know, it's not going to be the law, but guidance for people who are looking to spend money on these, whether they get the grant or not, so that people know what you expect, right? you want to retain features. There's issues with scale. There's all sorts of issues. So maybe that's a project you guys could
32. 45:39take on. >> But tell you how to build a house [laughter] today. >> It would be great if we can, you know, consider expanding the historic district. But I know that that's >> if if we do it using the we're the language that John is proposing. In other words, that not not all expanded areas need to be treated identical. >> Yeah. >> To the the 19th century bit, >> right, >> of the historic district. I think we could do it. People outside the district are uh not well informed. Mhm. >> Uh for at least in my experience, we did try this before uh and and got shut down, but but I think it was um not crafted right. People got frightened outside the district. They they felt this was going to be expensive. >> They felt that this was going to uh uh take away uh affordability.
33. 46:45uh they felt it was a uh [clears throat] uh an assault of gender fires >> uh on on on other Hudson folks. So we we if we walk this carefully enough, I think we can do I think we can really do it. Planning has a a new uh chair uh and he reached out to me a while ago uh proposing uh uh collaboration and and sharing and uh in in ways that we've not done before and are not prescribed in the code. Uh I think they actually should be institutionalized uh in the code. So the these silos are not acting sometimes in contradiction of one another >> in terms of what gets approved. So, uh, anybody who wants to, uh, jump in and work on that with Phil is, uh, more than welcome,
34. 47:49uh, whatever you want to do. But, but this is a great time to make it particularly makes a difference if we're willing to say we want to be part of the solution of the housing crisis >> because I think we've been viewed as being reactionary on that issue. It's not necessarily true, but >> but that is what a lot of people think. >> Yeah. I think that we have to really make we we've talked about this before, but we have to make >> it uh known to or educate the public about what we do and what we don't do. We don't tell you what color to paint your house or what tree to plant or most of that. you know, it's it's a pretty direct and confined [clears throat] uh number of items that we can we oversee. And I think that people have to understand that because like Phil said, there's the public or many especially outside the historic district are not informed and they just think that we are here to tell them what they can and
35. 48:51can't do, what they can >> uh >> taste. Yeah. Taste, [clears throat] you know, all of those things. And you know, I've heard it correctly and I'm sure you all have >> much so part of whatever document we put together. >> This is a historic district and this is the HBC and this is what we do and this is what we don't do. >> So don't be so you know >> and it also that you know I think you can show there's all these questions we know all these questions that people have. Well what about new construction? Well we've preconstruction right? What [clears throat] about paint colors? What about wing? Like you could probably you could probably codify and maybe it's worth maybe it's not staying out. You probably codify a lot of questions that people have when they walk in here. >> Yeah. >> And make them better educated about what it is that we do >> before they come in. >> Well, when we bought a house in the historic district at 325, you didn't even >> I didn't even know it was I didn't even know. [clears throat] >> I didn't even know there was any, you know, you can do this and you can't do that.
36. 49:51>> Hopefully, we'll fix that. Yeah. Jen and I were just having this conversation the other day actually. Um, you know, uh, previous to my appointment as code enforcement officer, I was a contractor and I was intimidated of ever having to come in front of HPC or do any of that stuff. So, I always would put that responsibility on the owner and architect. And since I've been here in this position and working beside you guys and I I see how wrong I was about the process of going to HPC. Uh you guys are very accommodating on the front of the brochure. [laughter] >> We're the most accommodating commission. as they thought you [laughter] >> um I do have a hand raised chairman. >> Sure. >> Um Mr. Copniki and Mr. McGee, would you like to speak? >> Uh yes. Thank you. First, in in response to what you've just been saying, in New York City, the uh preservation historic
37. 50:55preservation commission does issue guidelines for historic districts and at one point they did put out a pamphlet explaining to people exactly what the commission does. So, I think those are good ideas if you follow through on that. on 11 Warren. As I said at the last meeting, I believe uh the code is unequivocal on the fact that uh even non-contributing buildings in historic districts require a certificate of appropriateness. uh gossips of Rivertown. I think at some point in the past mentioned the Monroe decision in discussing how I believe in 2011 the uh county went not only before the preservation commission on alterations to the courthouse but also before the planning board. So that has set a precedent. And finally, I would like commissioners, if they're not already doing so, to pay attention to developments concerning the Dun
38. 51:58Warehouse. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Um, one last and this is uh I I'm no way to introduce last outside the meeting. Is is there any other business to discuss for the meeting? I just I just want to state on Greg Green in case anybody is listening out there. The grant that I was referring to before is Ruffco and it looks like you can get up to $112.5,000 um to add an accessory dwelling unit onto your property which could be used towards one of these carriage houses or something. >> New construction or renovation as well. It could be it it you could use it to finish a basement if you wanted to. As long as you're adding housing that's going to >> Could you could you spell R U PO they come us a couple times down below us newberg and
39. 53:0212.5. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Of course, it's certain income qualifications, but I think it's they're better standards, you know. Okay, we'll pursue. Thank you. Thanks. >> And that is our meeting. >> Motion to return. >> Yes. If we could uh uh all in favor >> Victoria. Hey, Victoria. >> Yes. >> Are you coming on at >> five? Yeah. >> Yes. I I'm going to try to make it. [laughter] [laughter] >> Thank you very much all for having me. >> Bye. >> Thank you.

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