Planning Board, Regular Meeting

1. Part 1: opening business, the applicant's consultants, and the public hearing
2. 0:02Mr. Jeffy here.
3. 0:15So we have a quorum and the meeting is in order. The first item of regular meeting business is the approval of invoices. Do we have invoices to act on tonight?
4. 0:25Yes, we do. Would you please?
5. 0:27We have four. running engineering owing $13,62560
6. 0:38and it is absolutely motion to approve J second people are not speaking tonight they're waiting to learn so I have to repeat their names for the generally spells.
7. 1:00Yes.
8. 1:00Black.
9. 1:01Yes.
10. 1:02Yes.
11. 1:04And yes.
12. 1:07Yeah. Approved. Um going to now approve the minutes from the August 11th meeting as distributed uh previously. Are there any edits or corrections to the minutes? Hearing none. Move approval. Someone at this time.
13. 1:32Yes.
14. 1:35Yes.
15. 1:37Yes.
16. 1:38Yes.
17. 1:38Black.
18. 1:39Yes.
19. 1:40Yes.
20. 1:42Um, and the final item of business and is any announcements? I have one. Uh, our attorney is not very bigger tonight. uh and his office was unable to send a stand in. So if there are issues of uh legal in nature uh then we need legal opinion going as the board that we set those aside and either uh reach out to Andrew uh in writing after tonight or wait until the next regular meeting. Are there other announcements go [clears throat] to line before we
21. 2:16go report
22. 2:18and report? Yes.
23. 2:21Um [clears throat] there are ongoing conversations between the planning board and the historic preservation commission but I don't have excuse me know that I have anything to report as you don't have anything to report. It was not the last um conservation commission meeting.
24. 2:40Um before we move into our business tonight, I want to outline um the uh one item on the agenda that's 41 North Second Street. We have several components of of our meeting tonight that address that particular applicant. Uh first we're going to have a public hearing and uh I'll be making a director comments to that uh in a moment. Following the public hearing, we've been instructed by council that we need to uh uh comment on our site visit so that we get that into the public record. And this is [clears throat] not an evaluative conversation. It's just when
25. 3:23was it, who was there, what did we do? Um we'll have an opportunity later in the agenda for any questions or issues that might have come up on the site visit. Uh following uh that brief discussion, we'll turn the meeting over to Rich who will give us an update on the engineering work that they've been doing uh identifying the work that's complete and other ongoing projects that still need uh to be attended to. We will then uh deal with the first round of public hearing questions. Um, this was
26. 3:55up through August 9th, from the beginning of the public hearing until August 9th. You recall we developed 16 pages, I think, of of questions falling into nine different categories of issues. U the applicant didn't want to uh didn't want to be non-responsive, so they sent us 44 pages of answers. Um, so we are going to ask uh Jed and colleagues to let us have an opportunity to ask follow-up questions from their responses to to that uh activity. Then we have additional questions that we need to address uh to the applicant
27. 4:36for public comments that occurred from August 9th to September 1st, which was the end of the uh deadline for the written comments to be made. And so I have four suggested topics that we will discuss then. Um and then finally uh we will open up the conversation to board me board member questions or issues. So in the first part we're dealing with public hearing issues. In this last section we'll be dealing with any ongoing questions that board members might have. Uh it's a lot to cover uh but it's uh it's an
28. 5:12important word and uh I think we'll go ahead and get underway now. But before I'm doing any questions about the process going forward.
29. 5:20No, but I always feel sensitive about people who are coming at the last minute who maybe didn't get to sign. So I just wanted to say if you're in the back and you want us to get on the public comment record, come up here and get your name.
30. 5:32Sorry, I have one question. Yes, of course. I'm John F. I'm the attorney for the applicant. We have some consultants here. So, we got to give some presentations at some point. It might preemptively answer some of your questions because there has been a lot of updates that have occurred since our last submission. So, we've got a traffic consultant, we have our architect, we have um site civil engineer, we have an environmental consultant. You know, a lot of questions have come up at some point. We would like to present each of our consultants.
31. 6:09answer why insert that presentation after Rich makes his
32. 6:15review that sounds
33. 6:16well it's my only forget please
34. 6:25I just want to comment for a second on um our arrangement tonight there are an awful lot of people back there ways back and I'm worried about people being able to hear. Just don't see any way that we can put any more people up in in this part of the room though. Is there a space planner here that might be able to help? Um there is there is a little bit of space in this corner. If someone wants to if if people who are currently standing watch over there there is there is some room in this corner.
35. 6:54If there more chairs you could add another row. Well, I don't have anything here. social inter.
36. 7:33Yeah. two seats up here if anybody wants to come. [clears throat]
37. 8:15We want to Without objection, we're going to reorder the agenda. We're going to put the engineering conversations up front before the public hearing. This gives more content to those who are assembled here and it may help inform your comments when the public hearing is reopened. So why don't we start Rich with uh with your report.
38. 8:46Okay.
39. 8:47Uh there there does need to be time for board Q&A. Is that after the board or after they definitely do that to their board may have questions specific to and then they may want to have some discussion after
40. 9:03stay. Okay. Uh so we put together a comment memo uh dated September 8th and we uh broke that broke out the uh memo by starting it out with remaining approval issues from a technical standpoint of course um and then potential items that we thought could be a condition of approval uh to break that out for the the board. So the the first item of uh approval issues of of something that the applicant has to get to the board prior to uh considering a final approval would
41. 9:36be uh the ZBA variance. Um there and then so that's number one. Number two is there's some talk within the application about u second street and if part of it were to close close down but we didn't see any detail on it because we don't believe that's part of the application but there are still some some notes so we'd like that clarified and maybe that can be touched on in tonight's presentation um the confirmation formal confirmation of water wastewater uh capacity from the city um New York State EC approval for
42. 10:11the uh sewer extension mentioned. Um, and then the uh this the storm water permit. Um, and then anything associated with the brown fields work, we're looking to get that to get DEC approval on that to close that out so we all know 100% what that involves. Um, the uh the the rightway improvements uh to have any of the rightway improvements signed off by the city department of public works. Um and then uh confirmation this is actually to the to the planning board as far as looking at the parking areas and
43. 10:47make sure that you're satisfied with any of the screening that's being proposed or or if enough screening isn't proposed that that that's something that's discussed amongst the members. Um and to show the firetruck turning uh plans um that we they mentioned but we haven't seen those yet. um particularly with the the the northern the work on the northern side um because I believe that that truck would have to go underneath a portion of the building. And then number eight, the the big site plan set with all site plan sheets, the architectural,
44. 11:22lighting, landscape, etc. Um there was originally a full set, but then it's been pieces, so we'll have to see all that uh together. Um and then confirmation at the architectural plans. um adequate we identify the required building materials that this board would like to see. So that was something that we've asked for so you know exactly what materials that you've approved. Um and then provide a comprehensive construction logistics and construction management plan. That was part of the responses. We thought that was a great idea. So we'd like to see that and the
45. 11:57applicant has offered to provide that to you. The uh then number 11 is provide a detailed construction traffic and uh that yeah the construction or the construction traffic logistics plan um and then confirm a list of the pre-construction survey areas. Uh so they offer to do a pre-construction survey. What we think is that they should give you those areas that they're going to do the pre-construction survey so that you can evaluate and make sure everything is covered. They don't have to do the pre-construction survey for you, but give you the outline of where that's going to happen. Um, and then the
46. 12:33items that we think could be possible conditions of the approval are the final acceptance of SWIP, um, the DEEC sewer extension approval and then the uh, the city DPW approval for water and sewer connections. That's that's turn it over to you.
47. 12:54Great. Thank again. So, my name is John Hurst. I'm the attorney. Go ahead.
48. 12:59It's okay.
49. 13:01I can ask later.
50. 13:03Fantastic. Um, so we're going to provide a brief presentation. There's been a lot of questions and comments that have come up especially from the site visit. So, we figured we bring our whole team here to kind of give a presentation, some updates. Hopefully, it answers many of your questions, maybe some of the public's questions. Um, you know, we've been very busy since the last meeting. As the chairman had mentioned, we have 46 page response memo. We had a site visit with the planning board. I know our engineer has been working with your engineer on um kind of addressing all
51. 13:32the comments that are outstanding. So without further ado, I'd first like to turn it over to the to Jeffrey. Uh he is the u executive director of the Hudson County housing authority. And then I think John Maddo who's a development partner is also going to say a few words and then we'll have each consultant come up and give an update presentation.
52. 13:52Good evening everyone. Thank you for coming out for this uh tremendous project that we have going on that's uh pulling so much attention. Um I just want to thank the planner board for coming out to the site doing the site visit and doing this due diligence and I'm not going to hold you because we have a lot to cover and we brought a lot of people to talk to you. So, John Matt, oh, you're here. I'd like to introduce John Matt, the director of development for Monaco to have some words with you and introduce.
53. 14:21Thanks, Jack.
54. 14:22Um, good evening everybody, and again, I would echo Jeff's comments about the board coming out to the site. We know it's a lot of extra work for you guys, but I think it it really is very helpful for project like this. Couple of quick things. Um, I know you may not believe this, but I'm happy to see so many people out here. I probably will disagree with a lot of what they have to say, but that's fine. The more information that comes before this board, the more information the board has before they make the decision, the better decision you guys are going to be able to make. So, we're very supportive of that. Um, just looking around faces,
55. 14:55I see a lot of people I haven't seen before. So, I would just like to do uh two things. One is um suggest that they take a look at the uh uh uh planning board portal. There's a lot of information on that. a lot of information that we've submitted about uh the project. Maybe they're aware of it already, maybe they're not, but it's certainly it's helpful information. Similarly, the housing authority has a website where we've answered a lot of questions that have been asked before. So maybe some of the questions that we hear tonight, we already have answers to, but if not, that's fine. But one way
56. 15:27or another, um uh anybody who's interested in this project should be looking at the uh the planning board portal on the housing authority website. Uh those are key uh key items. Um couple of other quick things. I I do want to comment on uh Rich's comments. I can't write as fast as you spoke, but uh but I went through uh the checklist pretty quickly. We agree with uh with I think everything that Rich said. I've got one comment that that may have a a definition of of how we address it. Uh
57. 15:57but the things that Rich said that uh we had indicated that we will provide to the board such as the materials for the logistics plan, a few other plans like that we're working on. We expect to have them for the board within [clears throat] the next two weeks. Okay? And uh and you'll have that in in advance so that you'll be able to look at it. Again, they'll be put up on the portal, I presume, by the board and we'll put it on the housing authorities um uh website. Um, I I want to say this
58. 16:25because this may get lost in the in the sauce sometimes. The project that you have before you didn't just fall out of of the sky. Um, the there are so many competing goals of a of development like this and they don't always mesh together. Okay, we need a certain number of units. Okay, we need uh we need to want we want to provide as much green space as possible, but uh we don't want to build the buildings too tall. Okay, we uh we want to have traffic flow. We want to a lot of these things. Again,
59. 17:01we've been working on this for years. We've had uh public meetings about it uh outside of the planning board. Uh we've had a lot of comments about it. So the plan that you have before you represents our best effort to balance all of those goals. Okay. We could get a lot more green space if we built a ntory building, right? Okay. We don't think you guys want a ninetory building. We don't want a nine-story building. So there's got to be tradeoffs which in you would see in any project. But I I just want to bring that um uh to the forefront of the discussion. So as we as
60. 17:38we address some of these things, they're not oneoffs. It's not just, well, you're not giving us this, okay? We're giving you what we think we can give you in relation to all the other goals that we think everybody wants. Uh, [snorts] and and I think that that's important. Um, so I'm going to stop now. I don't know, Mr. Chairman, if you want to go into public comment or if you want some of our um some of our engineers and and to discuss what we have. I think it's important that the record be uh prepared. The the information that you that you've got uh really uh outlines
61. 18:11the project in great detail. We're going to emphasize some things particularly want to talk about brownfields. Uh we want to talk about um some of the other issues that have been raised. So if you want to do that now, we can do that now.
62. 18:23Yeah, I think we should go ahead and pursue this conversation. give the board an opportunity to ask questions and then we'll transition into public comments.
63. 18:40We're going to start with Brownfield. Start with Brownfield since that was the last thing.
64. 18:46Introduce yourself please.
65. 18:48Yeah. I'm with PBEDI environmental consultant to the project team. Um, like they mentioned, I'm here to talk about the brownfield portion of the property. Um, I have a few things I want to talk about kind in response to some of the comments and questions we received. Uh, one, where we are in the brownfield cleanup program timeline. Two, what the proposed remedy is, and three, what safety controls that remedy entails. Um, so one, we have submitted the remedial investigation report to the New York State DO for review and comment. Uh we
66. 19:20haven't received any subset of comments on that report yet to date. I believe it only went in a couple of weeks ago. So um not to bore everyone with the bureaucratic red tape or timeline that is the DEC, but it could be a little bit longer before we get anything back from them. I do have like a timeline question though because of our timeline around potentially tonight closing the public hearing that like is it 60 days that you're expecting that or
67. 19:48um typically a I would say maybe a month from initial submitt to having substitive comments a written comment letter from the state on that report. So, I don't want to speak for the whole board, but at least for me, I would like to get before we at least um before we vote on the applicant have all the stuff in place. And so, I just want to make sure we whatever we do with with you all that all the technical documents are fully in place.
68. 20:15Yeah, the to speak to the rest of the steps of the program there there are more steps to the program after review and commented on the review. Once they have reviewed all the data, we're going to prepare what's called the remedial action worth plan, which is going to lay out the proposed remedy of the property, which what to jump to point number three, or actually not point number two, the right order. Beautiful. Um, is going to be what's called the track 4 remedy. Uh, what that consists of is essentially a cover
69. 20:42system and a substant pressurization system for vapors and a groundwater restriction, which is common on most brownfield cleanup program sites. I said and on a webinar this year where I think over 50% of the brownfield sites go after a track for remedy. Um it's the cover system itself consists of in green spaces a two clean soil cover or uh in non-green spaces you're talking about hardcapes which consist of your foundation, your sidewalks, your asphalt. So basically what that's trying to do is to eliminate the direct exposure pathway to any remaining soil
70. 21:18contaminants on site. And then your subslab depressurization system for your vapors. Very common to a radon system if anyone has those near. It's the exact same science behind that. It's capturing vapors while they accumulate underneath the slab and evacuating them into the heavy air above the building. Um, a lot of data and design goes into that to determine one the size of the system, the amount of labor that's underneath, but also whether or not any scrubbing needs to happen at the roof before it gets exhausted in the atmosphere. And PC and DH reviews all of that before anything's approved. And then the last bit is the groundwater use restriction, which is not a problem here obviously because the property is serviced by municipal water for building purposes.
71. 21:59Question. This may not be directed to you.
72. 22:02Sure. But there are two issues on that side. One is the brown field and the other is the swimsuit [clears throat]
73. 22:07and both of those have to be addressed I assume fairly simultaneously. Uh how how has how has the planning for that development? Now how how do you navigate those two both are solvable but solvable at the same time? So
74. 22:24in terms of scheduling of earthwork for a typical development earthwork for brownfield remediation
75. 22:29who we're talking about I think where Ron is going is the uh a design plan for the geotechnical improvements versus the brown field work that you have to do and somehow those two have to work together almost marry together if you would.
76. 22:43So I think that's where you were going with that. Yeah, I feel like people are concerned that in the process of soil stabilization, we will agitate the contaminants, which it would also be helpful if you could clarify what the contaminants are and if they're
77. 22:58I don't know
78. 23:00if they're unique to that site. Yeah.
79. 23:04So, I think I heard another interview come up behind me once that question came up. But to answer it from a brownfield standpoint, the contaminants we're talking about what you find in urban fill up and down the Hudson Valley, any site that's been previously just or improved upon, uh whether it be former industrial or residential, we're talking about the infill of warmer structures into the basement. We're talking about building debris, construction demolition debris. And with that comes usually semiol organic compounds and heavy metals. I know all that sounds scary, but in reality, those
80. 23:35contaminants are highly common in New York State. And actually, New York State BC started cracking down on applications for inclusion in the rapid cleanup program to disallow them into the program based on that data solely because it's so in the United States or in New York City.
81. 23:53So, during this site visit, we know that there's a bunch of uh sampling wells. if um I was just curious if you know what you're currently sampling out of those. Yeah.
82. 24:02Yeah. We sampled it for the full suite of parameters that New York State would expect for a rapid claim program. So it includes things VOCC's, SVC, metals, PCBs, pesticides, herbicides, POS dioxine, everything underneath the sun, which is what you have to do to be included in the rapid cleaner program. They want to rule out everything. And what we found there are largely naturally occurring metals, magnes, magnesium, things that anyone could find in their portable well if you live outside of the city limits.
83. 24:28Yeah. And is that are we expecting that report or like will be included in the RF metal? Correct.
84. 24:35Yeah. So it's mainly metals and volatiles as well.
85. 24:39Uh no volatiles, mainly metals. Yep.
86. 24:41Okay. So then we're not talking about so much the collection system and the scrubber. You had mentioned
87. 24:48Yeah. SPS for the vapor. Yes. Yep. But yeah, I've been on a lot of much worse off sites, sites with chlorinating solvents in ground water and in the vapor. And even those sites still require scrubbing. Um it takes a lot for a site to require that just by nature of the percent of a contaminant in that load going into the atmosphere. So
88. 25:12And then are any of the samples in groundwater or is it just soil? Uh we sampled all three media soil, soil vapor and groundwater.
89. 25:20So is that all of three that there's hits on
90. 25:23there? Largely the hits in terms of the site contaminants here, those semiolin compounds and heavy metals were in the upper 3 to 4 feet across the site which is typical of again urban infill for old basements and structures. There wasn't much to speak of deeper than that. Groundwater again was naturally occurring metals and the soil vapors. There wasn't a lot to speak of at all. Honestly, the fact that we're putting in a subsidic pressurization system also speaks to uh the site's inclusion in HCR's process. They require a vapor
91. 25:56mitigation system for radon.
92. 25:58Yeah. And it's you're saying it's the same. So, anybody?
93. 26:02Yeah. Um
94. 26:06I think to go back to the scheduling question about geotechnical and the agitation of soils during that process, it's going to be the same regardless of any agitation of the soils on site. Uh whether it be for geotechnical stabilizing or just general earth work on site. Uh what's going to be happening there is anytime there's a shovel in the ground uh we have to enact what's called the community air monitoring plan as a function of the brownfield cleanup program. And what that includes is upwind and downwind instrumentations measuring for uh dust particular matter
95. 26:39down to PM10 which I'm sure we all kind of got used to hearing after all the wildfires and everything like that. So it's stuff you can't see with your naked eye. Obviously dust generation on a construction site you can see to some extent if it's very negligent but uh this is going to be measuring down to something we're not going to be able to see and with that data we're going to be receiving that real time on our phones to a project manager back in the office and uh also to the construction manager on site. So if there's any exceedences of background upwind concentrations in
96. 27:09the downwind instrumentation, meaning that something could be migrating off site, then uh general earthwork practices will be enacted with uh spraying down stock piles or delaying of work if there's inclement weather with a lot of wind, things like that, the covering stock piles, whatever it may be.
97. 27:27From a layman's perspective, building on a brown field sounds unwanted. Uh but the process you're talking about results in uh a a situation that's not unhealthy for residents. Is that
98. 27:43correct? Yeah.
99. 27:44And that's the objective I assume is that you want a healthy site that you're going to build.
100. 27:49Exactly. Right.
101. 27:50And brownfield remedi remediation is a
102. 27:53it's been a practice that's been conducted for decades now.
103. 27:57Yeah. Yeah. this in its third or fourth uh iteration now with a lot of different background attacking credits and how that goes. But yeah, it's been around for a while and it keeps getting resigned. I think it just got signed for another 10 years. So it's it's not going anywhere. It's it's in my opinion better than building on new virgin land when there's something that could be built on otherwise that could be sitting there defunct for a long time otherwise.
104. 28:24Any questions? Additional questions? I guess I also I heard some chatter at the site visit um and this is like a new perspective to me but um that basically what's in the land there is what's in the land all over Hudson. Do you have a basis if you're like a professional opinion on that do you
105. 28:44just by sheer number of sites that I've investigated in Hudson and up and down the Hudson Valley. We do a lot of work in the cities in Pipsy Beacon Newberg Kingston Hudson. Um, when we put a soil warning in the ground, we more or less know what we're going to find before we send the samples off to the labs based visually on what we're seeing. If we see infill, construction demolition, worries, it's going to be those things that we talked about before.
106. 29:08So, this site is is there a reason why this site has been designated as a brown field or it's like
107. 29:13through a great deal of uh contention with the state. It's a it was a fight for us to get this site into the program because it truly is not that contaminated. uh we tried getting another portion of the site into the program and they deemed it not acceptable because it was even less contaminated. So
108. 29:31additional questions
109. 29:33um is there any expectation for any of the material to need to leave this site?
110. 29:38Uh just based on the site's general cut fill analysis if they have excess soils uh it'll have to leave the site and anything leaving the groundfield site will have to be properly characterized and then sent to a permitted landfill. Um there is the ability to reuse it on another site if it meets that site's acceptable use. We uh I have a couple of brownfield sites where we were able to get a beneficial use determination uh with the state puts out for uh solid waste regulations for reuse of that soil
111. 30:04in another site which is a green initiative of theirs. Um, but if facilitials can remain on site, uh, yeah, absolutely. There's nothing that we found so far, at least that what we're putting in our remedial action work plan that would qualify as a quote unquote hotspot removal. Just didn't find anything to support that data.
112. 30:22Okay. So, and then to bring it back to the geotechnical part, basically in summary, you're saying anytime we're cutting into the surface of the soil, whether it's to clear a foundation or to regrave or to I don't actually I'm not sure if I could accurately describe the geotechnical engineering, but I understand there's like a there's like a compression of the soil. Um, so when that portion of the land is opened up for the process, it would be treated
113. 30:48it with the caution due to contaminated material.
114. 30:52Yeah. any ground to service activities are going to be handinand with our community our modern program.
115. 31:06So you have any other brownfield questions for Conor? Good for him.
116. 31:11I think that was good through preview. Thank you.
117. 31:13Yeah. Great. Thank you.
118. 31:15So now I'm going to segue because there are some questions that came up. We have technical. So we have Brian Burker, our licensed PE. uh he'll talk about that um because I think this that came up during commerce the statute right hi Brian Brooker licensed professional Virginia as he said uh our firm question and Samson uh prepared geotechnical report which typically isn't submitted to uh planning review it's submitted to uh building department and everything for construction so since it became an issue It was submitted on the portal. Everyone
119. 31:54can read it. I also understand there was a previous geotechnical report by glory which we we know then um and uh the two reports are generally the same because the ground hasn't changed since the borings were we did a number of borings uh on the site much greater in detail than the previous report uh because we had both sides of the street studied uh including around the existing building that's there. Now, uh what was found of course is below the grade is a clay, silty clay soil, mostly clay. Uh some of
120. 32:36the boring 100 110 ft all clay still all the way down there, which is actually below the Hudson River level. So, um there's moisture in the clay. There's um different densities. So the geotechnical uh improvements that need to go on and both reports for and our report indicated that construction of this type is going to require soil improvement and that's something that uh we can do. There's many ways to do a soil improvement. The recommended way is something that we call aggregate peers. So um you know the a bore hole is opened
121. 33:23up down like 60 feet and rammed aggregate is placed and rammed in place to displace the soil and compact it to a great greater density at the depth that the support is expected. So those are then tested to make sure that there's adequate bearing and the rams aggregate is brought to the surface uh where it's placed is underneath the foundation so that this the bearing weight of the foundation is on these aggregate peers and we would be able to achieve 3 to 4,000 lbs per square foot of load if
122. 34:07you're familiar with that. um throughout the site. Uh so that is the planned improvement that was done uh and recommended for this building. It's not this building isn't quite that heavy. It's a wood frame structure on top of a concrete uh and steel kind of structure for the first floor. So we're going to call that a podium and then four stories of foot. So it doesn't weigh the same as a concrete and steel building. That's like the other tower is nine stories. That's got a lot more intense bearing on
123. 34:46on the soil. So, but with that being taken care of the the uh it's almost a conventional type of construction. uh once once the aggregate peers are supporting the load and we distribute the uh loads to those peers uh the construction would go uh pretty quickly. Um
124. 35:13any comments?
125. 35:14Uh yeah, quickly I would just ask to describe the size of the hole that you anticipate and then the size of the aggregate that's filled. that would be in the detailed report from the uh geotechnical side that when we get the actual recommended sizes and diameters um that will happen through testing. So I I can't give you that right now. Uh we do have a consultant that will be performing uh design build. So it's a it's a deleg de delegated uh construction and that they will if
126. 35:54you're interested will send you the reports prior to the work and during the work because what they discover during the work they may have to go deeper they might have to go wider uh you know they they need to provide what I just told you the end result is that we have 3 to 4,000 PSI of uh support and so that's done through the actual work and the testing. So that would happen even with piles. I mean drive piles you think you're going to go 60 ft. Sometimes you're going to go 80 ft. Sometimes you're going to go 100 ft because you don't know what you're really going to find until you get get down there. Um
127. 36:37and um it won't have a way to keep going. So maybe the aggreate pair is only 80 ft, but right now the their initial calculations are something like 60 ft. Uh I see because we've done sample pores that are like you know col columns but once you actually open up where this where the aggregate peers need to go. Yeah.
128. 37:03You might learn something about the density of compaction like in the material before that bene the saying there's like a lot of moisture and density variation in the substrate.
129. 37:14Right. So what happens is you're taking in twoin splits when we're doing the planning and we do many samples.
130. 37:24Yeah. And and the geotechnical report is in the file. You can look at where the borings were done, what the results were. Everybody is uh characterized. But that goes into how to do the puris. But instead of, you know, 20, there's going to be hundreds.
131. 37:45Mhm.
132. 37:46So, you're going to be finding out when you're putting the advocate peers in exactly what uh you need to do to provide the proper support and if you need to move more than you anticipate, then you move more than you anticipate.
133. 38:02Any other questions? Yeah, I I have so I based on the public comment a lot of people are concerned about a couple of things here and then I can I can hear the the like concern brewing and you say like we don't know how big it's going to be. So I'm wondering if there's like a you there's like a range or you know we're not talking about like excavating and ramming the whole substrate of the
134. 38:24the only a few feet in diameter. They're not
135. 38:28they're not uh
136. 38:30so we can range higher four to six feet in diameter basically as a footing versus footing.
137. 38:35Yes.
138. 38:36And then what about vibration in compaction? That's a big concern. And how long does this phase
139. 38:43you do have vibration and we will be monitoring vibration but typically rammed earth it rammed aggregate is less vibrating than uh piles because they're not stiff when what they absorb the energy by displacing the rock to the side which is how you compact the soil with it because it it spreads out and uh it doesn't it absorbs the energy rather than you know creating a wave that grabbles.
140. 39:14So typically it's less intrusive than actually driving piles would be.
141. 39:20And then what's the length the I mean you may not be able to provide this precise estimate but you know how long would neighbors have to be dealing with vibration? I live next to a train so my husband all the time but I'm curious like how yeah what's the impact
142. 39:36um we could give you a um you know an estimated time
143. 39:42we talking months are we talking months is it like a
144. 39:46well probably a month but let me get an answer to you correctly from the uh the designer as to what his equipment how how fast his equipment will be moving through the same.
145. 40:00And then what do you know about the vibration monitoring process?
146. 40:05Well, typically we start with a uh site study of all the adjacent properties uh doing a pre building survey looking for cracks and whatever so we can just know that nothing has changed. Um the um vibration that we try to uh keep it under is a half a foot per second um um wave and uh that's typically what you would see in New York City and what you'd see um anywhere and that's on the low side. I think in New York City we allowed to go up to at least one. Um but
147. 40:46we don't expect large um displacements with this method.
148. 40:52Would would it be reasonable for us as a condition of approval to set a max or is there a max in the code already? If there is one in New York City, that seems like a reasonable thing that we could like I had no idea about any of this like what is normal for a municipality or if we're planning for
149. 41:08which agency governs this kind of thing because like the code enforcement, right? Like there's going to be routine inspections at this construction site. So, you know, I don't know what we're planning to go.
150. 41:18Well, I think your role is to help with the concerns of the neighbors on this particular subject and that's why the question is being asked to type. So, it's interesting to hear that it's not going to be driven piles, so you're not going to have as much noise. The vibration is less, but it would be good if you could submit what you were talking about with say here's the parameters that we intend to work within and then that way the the planning board has the full understanding and then the public has the understanding of what to expect.
151. 41:46There is a particular concern I think from the uh owner 72 72 North Second Street. It's like a historic church building that's adjacent to the site. Um, and like how close any of these pilings are to that I think is like was a concern from what's neighbor concern.
152. 42:05Well, the the building is Lshaped.
153. 42:08Yeah.
154. 42:09I think it goes right up to the property line. Yeah, that's correct.
155. 42:14And that'll also play into their reconstruction inspection that they committed to doing as well too where all the properties properties will be reviewed,
156. 42:26right? There definitely would be. So you can see from this site that most of that property bounded by um a parking lot. The parking lot slopes down from the road. So it's it's going into the existing earth and the earth is being excavated. So there's a wall here that's elevated. Um so that the parking lot is below the adjacent grade.
157. 42:57Okay.
158. 42:58Um you can't really see. Okay.
159. 43:05So that that would be along here. Um and so the only place where we have a building this L piece sticks towards the church that's been I believe it's it's now home.
160. 43:21Yes. Yeah. It's not church, right?
161. 43:23Okay. So that that's the closest that it will get. But there will be driven aggregate peers in this area to support the uh the building there. The building here is a little bit lighter because it's missing the whole first floor uh because there's a drive for the fire truck to be able to get underneath the building. So um the whole first floor is a tunnel. Um, and so that build that part is only a three story above that.
162. 43:56I remember from the site of the visit that the there isn't much of a setback at all. Like that building goes right up to the property line. So I think what we're saying is that the more information you can give us about how you're going to make sure that that property line and the neighbors are taken care of with regards to vibration. I think would be better.
163. 44:12Okay, we can address that. But I wanted to I mean one of the issues was that we have a competitive engineer's report that came to a very different conclusion. Can you speak directly to the difference in your approach and their approach and where you agree and where your um assessment sort of disagrees?
164. 44:31I haven't um what are you talking about?
165. 44:34I don't think they came to a different conclusion. I just don't think they could afford to move forward condition.
166. 44:41Yeah. Somebody can correct.
167. 44:42Yeah. I mean this it said you can't build this
168. 44:46you can't build this site
169. 44:48without ground improvement. [clears throat]
170. 44:51Now the peers we're talking about are not cheap.
171. 44:54Mhm.
172. 44:55Not [clears throat] doing nothing which costs very little.
173. 44:59Yeah.
174. 45:00Uh you have to do quite a bit to make sure that you have a a reasonable foundation to support the building properly.
175. 45:07So there wasn't a difference in evaluation. It was just sort of a willingness or to
176. 45:11no agg is something that's sort of new. It's it's not that new, but um it's a better it's it's got more friction with the soil. It's got a better root. It does better densification than piles.
177. 45:29So [clears throat] if you if you looked at that's why the original Poria report recommended ground improvement. He didn't say piles because the piles would be um very long, extremely expensive and um you know the performance um is you have to get enough uh resistance along it from friction. So you don't know whether you're going to be driving 120 foot piles or 80 foot piles. You got to pay per foot. So, if you're trying to do a budget for a project and you don't know how much money that is going to cost, um it it could blow the budget.
178. 46:15And in this case, my guess is that's probably what happened is um they discounted doing pilots because of the cost.
179. 46:23And then it was like, well, if you're not going to do ground improvement, there's other ways to do uh ground improvement. You could do dynamic compaction. We opted not to do that because dynamic compassion's taking a giant hammer and slamming the ground over and over and over for long periods of time and uh that would be objectionable in our estimation.
180. 46:51One more question.
181. 46:52I have one more question. Um so in the six well I have you though uh in the 630 uh the June 30th swipe there was brave sites found and then in the 86 or 85 swip uh revision that's removed and in the um public comment answers that was referenced that being an error. I just want to understand the nature of the error if it was a clerical or if there's like an engineering out like is there I I am only like pedantic about this because there's a set of like really strict New York state requirements around brave brave sites and so if there's any chance at all that
182. 47:31that also there
183. 47:36yeah I think it was I think it was clerical [clears throat] error I think it carried over from prior report of investigation and that makes sense to the current Okay. Talking about that.
184. 47:46Yes. Now, there was that was there was a project where that was an issue and on the strip and it got left in there by has nothing to do with the site.
185. 47:57Okay.
186. 47:57There's no graves.
187. 47:58Okay.
188. 47:59I just want to like Yeah, that's why it was only in the text on the mountain.
189. 48:05What's that?
190. 48:06I said that's why it was only in the text.
191. 48:08Yes. Yes.
192. 48:11Yes. Uh you earlier I think you said half a foot per second position is half an inch per second.
193. 48:16Uh half inch.
194. 48:17Okay. I was about to say I think half a major size.
195. 48:22But it seems like yeah half an inch sounds like what they what the limit is in the city for good about 12 times. That's all. [laughter]
196. 48:31Thank you for that presentation. That was very helpful. And thanks board for the questions. Hang tight. We got two more consultants. Since you have bored out of all the engineering, maybe I'll have the architect come on. So the engineering is your best part. [laughter]
197. 48:59Hello everyone. I'm Daryl Weiner. I'm the one of the architects for architecture and we are working on the design of the building. Mhm.
198. 49:08Yeah.
199. 49:09Basically, if we understand here for how much space is needed and such, some buildings are a little bit larger, but we've tried to break it down to a few to pedestrian size. We don't we don't there's no way to get a building for 102 units, maybe small, but we're not doing a Bliss Tower building. We're spreading everything out. We're breaking these down, keeping the rhythm of the town houses that exist in that general area. We're trying to mimic. The idea is to make everyone feel like they belong.
200. 49:45Um, they're four stories. They're they're the same height as most of the other buildings in the area and such. We're want people doesn't matter whether it's an affordable housing project or a regular market rate housing. Everyone deserves the same level of care and appreciation with where they live. [clears throat]
201. 50:08Um, you able to speak to there's some questions about if alternative configurations were considered alternative design schematics. I guess my question is how did you I don't know if you can speak to this if you're part of it from
202. 50:24Yeah. Was this a part of the beginnings of that? I do know there were there was a there was way back in the beginning there was an RFP that was put out with by the Hudson Housing Authority.
203. 50:34Yeah.
204. 50:34Where they do a number of competitions and such trying to get different designs and such. So somewhere along the line won the
205. 50:43the contract and I believe we have worked on several different versions and such. It comes down to also the efficiency and the cost
206. 50:51of of what we're trying to do. a lot of little buildings, a lot of cost, a lot more construction. There's a lot more juggling and such. So, we want to give everyone a really a nice place to live, but we also don't want to make it look like an industrial building. It's your [clears throat] home. You need to live someplace you can be proud to live in.
207. 51:16Yeah. Thank you. just to to follow up on his question. Um it if I think we presented this to the board uh but uh when the first presentation prior to this board um was uh seven stories. So uh we looked at a number of different designs. The heights of the buildings, the location of the buildings. These are part of the discussions that we had where we had public meetings and invited people to come in and comment on them. Um and um that development uh evolved over time. Okay. Um uh we heard very
208. 51:53clearly from board members, from the public. Um we what we came in with was a sevenstory building. That was the first sort of formal proposal. Um we heard very clearly that that's not what uh the board was looking for. That's our sense of evaluation of the board and and the public. Um so we went back and we revised it. We dropped the height of the buildings. Uh we moved the locations of the buildings. Um one of the things we should say and this because this is important again talked before about trade-offs, right? Um the it's very
209. 52:26critical that we have a certain mass of number of units um to make the project economically feasible. One of the issues that we have in this development is that the project was approved as a RAD development by HUD a number of years ago. Uh with that approval came a designation of certain rents for the people that were in uh uh Bliss and uh Colombia and those rents are very very low. So in order to balance that we need to have a certain number of units at rents
210. 53:01that are a little bit higher so that we can economically uh uh carry the building. that also addresses an issue which is sort of outside the board's purview I think but it's interesting information is uh in terms of the the income mix we've heard two two different comments first is you're concentrating all the low-inccome people in the site okay you're creating a ghetto by putting all the low-inccome people there second comment we heard is we're creating we're allowing people with higher incomes to come in okay and we shouldn't we shouldn't be doing that we should be addressing the lowincome households that need the So again, this project that we're proposing is a balance. Okay, we have to address uh we have to get a certain
211. 53:44number of units to make the unit mix and the rent mix to make it work. But at the same time, we're addressing a mixture of income. Some what HUD would call extremely low income, very low income, and low income. And we're one of the things we're going to be submitting to the board. Again, it's outside of the board refer, but I think it's interesting information is we'll give you a list of those definitions of what the incomes are so you can see. But that's part of the evolution of this
212. 54:11project. Yes, the question the project changed and yes, the design before um uh before Darland was involved uh did have different buildings and locations and heights
213. 54:21and the removal of retail from the first floor was a financial decision because you couldn't make the numbers work.
214. 54:28That's correct. That's it's a good catch. I didn't mention that there was there was a we had at one point we had um a proposed user for that retail um and uh and that that evaporated so we don't have that. It's it was an economic decision. Uh we're able to put I think five units in that space that creates a real rental income that we can count on.
215. 54:48I see.
216. 54:49So um the our engineers have requested list of specified materials that are going to be used in the project of the status of of flat. Has that been asked and answered or is that I think that's
217. 55:01we're in the process of putting together the material boards. We're getting all of our samples and stuff put together for you.
218. 55:06You'll have you'll have that within the next two weeks.
219. 55:09Um there's been a lot of comments about uh what could be errors or could be shifting plans that don't get followed through. But like um for example, I think there's one part where maybe 99 one-bedroom units are listed and then another part of of a material, the same material, it might say 93, which is a huge deal to me, but but I'm curious like what um when there's in I guess my curiosity is is the is the unit distribution set or might there be some last minute configurations? And then a question for us is does that matter if it's not a huge sling in population but is that normal for things to kind of normally some some things move a wall some things when we move a wall or we're moving some things around all of a sudden this unit doesn't work well as a onebedroom or it works better as a
220. 56:01twobedroom or uh the unit count that we're at pretty standard at this point I mean it might change depending on request from the Hudson Housing Authority and such if they're trying to find if they have a family that they know they need a specific configuration for such. One of the things we provide for is there's usually 5% 2% of units that are set aside for mobility people mobility impairment, people with hearing impairment. One of the fourbedroom units might not be a mobility unit, but if there is something that the Hudson housing authority knows is going to need a fourbedroom unit and they are going to need the mobility component to that will adjust our plans and such to bring that into the project.
221. 56:47If I could add one more thing, one of the things that happened in terms of bedroom distribution, which I think is important in terms of impact on the community, um, if you look at this, we're going right now 135 units on the site. We're going to 166 31 more units. That's right. U, but the bedroom distribution is changing. Okay, we're reducing the number of four bedrooms. We're adding the number of one bedrooms. So that's going to have uh a lesser impact on the community in terms of number of people on the site um
222. 57:19impact on the school district and services. So again these are all tradeoffs that as you say evolved over a period number change but it wasn't a a random um decision. It was it was within the context of the whole project.
223. 57:36So we're going to be getting a revised table of that.
224. 57:40Correct. The numbers the numbers that you have now are the numbers that we don't count.
225. 57:45There's discrepancy in the answers that were provided to the questions from the public. There are different numbers in different answers for the number of bedrooms.
226. 57:53It could have just been an I guess it's most likely just a poof rating.
227. 57:58So let's let's make sure I guess for the the board that there's one final maximum number someone to choose and then that's what they approve as a maximum. If you choose to do less then that's fine but they're going to improve on that.
228. 58:10I I just think that it'd be good if we can just yeah have it consistent. It wasn't. We're talking about the difference between 99 like 96 to 9 whe totally normal construction within construction as life evolves things change. [clears throat] We're listening to our our client which is the home the housing party of
229. 58:35I have questions um about the difference. There's a very different description. It sounds like a very different building in the answers to the questions that we gave the you guys in May um versus what arrived in August. We asked about how many street level entrances does each building have? And the answer said um residents access to buildings directly from public sidewalks, paths, open spaces with multiple street level entrances distributed across each building. Rather than concentrating circulation into a single centralized lobby, entrances are organized to serve smaller residential groupings so each entry supports a limited number of units. This approach
230. 59:15reinforces a neighborhood scaled residential character and allows residents to enter their homes close to the street or open space much like traditional walk up and small shared entry buildings found throughout Hudson. So we asked how many units are served by each entrance. Um and two primary residential entrances are located along State Street complemented by an additional entrance at the rear of the building that provides direct access from the parking area. One of the State Street entrances in the lines of the community room and shared building amenities, including the management office, creating a welcoming and clearly
231. 59:53identifiable point for both residents and visitors. This approach avoids the feel of a large institutional lobby while supporting intuitive wayfinding, accessibility, and a stronger sense of ownership and familiarity among residents. [clears throat] The next question was, how does it the entry and circulation design compare to Hudson's typical residential patterns? Um, and uh those patterns are frequent street facing doors, entrance and serving small groups of units, and a direct relationship between homes, sidewalks, and public space. Um, in August the answer changed because we asked again because no number had been given in response to the question.
232. 1:00:34Um, and it said building A, we asked clarify whether residents of each building will primarily enter through a single principal entrance and lobby. If so, identify the anticipated number of residential units served by each principal entrance and describe whether multiple principal residential entrances or a more distributed entry configuration was considered and if so why this configuration was selected buildings have one primary entrance to the building and this is for security reasons.
233. 1:01:05Yes, [clears throat]
234. 1:01:05there are this very dramatic shift from these sound like two different buildings. This is my question. Let me finish. There are two for building B due to the relationship of the site and how the building is to be approached, but they both bring someone to the same location. Building A has 58 units by this entrance and building B 102 um units. Yeah. So this can you explain how um the building so when I read the first description I hear about smaller buildings built at human and neighborhood scale. when I hear the
235. 1:01:39second description and and it in fact characterizes institutional scale as a problem to be avoided and yet you show up in late August you change the answer dramatically and you actually present an institutional scale lobby as a solution for security purposes so can you explain why there's such a dramatic difference and I think it's one more thing it feels significant because that description was in May it was [clears throat] sort of before the seeker vote and so seems like a wild mischaracterization of the actual I I I can understand that and such and it's just there are multiple entrances
236. 1:02:13in the primary entrance that everyone will be using will be the main lobby entrance. That's where you're coming in for all the mailboxes and such. There are other smaller entrances that will be probably key or coded to be able for people to get in and out, but the primary entrance that serves everything is is the one. Um in the larger building in our building B, we have two entrances. One from State Street, one coming from the parking area. It's going to be a very big atrium, very welcoming.
237. 1:02:42We have a we have a lobby area, a whole
238. 1:02:46I understand I understand what you're describing as B1, right? It's the current state of B1. What I'm asking is there was before when we asked you a direct question about how this building was designed, it was designed with smaller units and entry serving smaller numbers of units because there is a benefit to residents for living in smaller size units.
239. 1:03:07Make a suggestion. I think this is an important question, but I also think it's a visual question. I think it would be very helpful to have u some kind of visual representation of what you're describing
240. 1:03:19because it's difficult to imagine and we may not all be imagining the same thing.
241. 1:03:24Yeah. So since uh architecture is going to be a subject when we get our specifications on materials if we could ask you to uh develop a a wholesome answer to Peter's observation and question u so that we can all kind of share that uh that uh in a visual way. I think that would be would that be helpful Peter?
242. 1:03:47Yeah absolutely. I think you framed the question pretty thoroughly and and if that
243. 1:03:52No, I understand the question and I see where you're coming from on it. So,
244. 1:03:56great.
245. 1:03:57I think um Alex, you have another architect on on the call. Alex, I don't know if you have anything to add if you heard [clears throat] the question from the board member about the entrances.
246. 1:04:10Yes. Uh the change was based entirely on security. Um and um even in market in market rate houses as well as affordable one entrance is what is desired. Otherwise, it's uh insecure and also uh cost and accessibility because you'd have they all have to be handicapped accessible and you'd have to have uh multiple multiple elevator banks which would be make it prohibitive in cost um because the they all have to be accessible. Now visual visually the exterior
247. 1:04:51is still uh uh gives the impression and shows uh a division of townhouse scale um architecture which is based on Warren Street. So the uh and and as well as Jane Jacobs said uh it's also about eyes on the street. So even though there are not multiple entrances, you still have uh many many windows at uh ground level so that people can see what's going on as well as the bay windows which allow you to see up and down the street as well.
248. 1:05:29Isn't this isn't isn't the eyes on the street argument that actually the more street life you have actually at street level the more activity you have and that's a sense of protection. So there's two different security strategies represented in different design choices and you have a as you said trade-offs to be made. So you there was a moment in this plan when you had one strategy for security that was based on a neighborhood scale human scale development that had more connection between people and their neighbors and the people on the street. So I'm wondering
249. 1:05:59the scale has not changed. The scale is still neighborhood change. The the scale is still based upon the neighborhood. It has not changed at all. And the uh visual aspect of the building from the exterior is of uh divisions and breaking down the scale through materials through uh insets and parapets and uh everything has been done to keep the scale uh at the residential level here. Aesthetically from the outside, I understand that that might be the case, but for a resident living in a building that's a one institutional lobby versus a building that
250. 1:06:35it's not an institutional lobby at all,
251. 1:06:38double quoting your language, sir,
252. 1:06:40you your your own response in May, please allow me to finish, indicated argued against an institutional lobby and argued for um rather than concentrating circulation into a single centralized lobby, entrances are organized to serve smaller resident ational grouping. So each entry supports a limited number of that seems to take a position on the benefits of a smaller scale development for the experience of residents, not for my enjoys.
253. 1:07:10I think actually I think Jeffrey or John Mattio should expand upon this. So
254. 1:07:15I I think also I I do think there's like a a certain neighborhood quality to people sitting on stoop and watching for each other that is different than institutional security. Like I think there's a
255. 1:07:27need action.
256. 1:07:28There's a balance there and different ways of providing security to community like people watching out for each other that is different than I always conversation personally but like I do think there's like a different kind of neighborhood you can get different ways and security can come from neighbors as well as from there are there are secondary meanings in and out. They're just not the primary. Like for example, on the A building, there will be eventually a back entrance to come in from the eventual park and such. You don't have to walk all the way around the building to get in. There'll be other ways in, but you still have to go to the same area to get to the elevators.
257. 1:08:04There's also an it's a second entrance on State Street also to the community room as well.
258. 1:08:09Community room has an entrance and such that will be open,
259. 1:08:12but those are two entries on 300t walls with no ground floor activation and no mix. No big difference at all about entrance.
260. 1:08:19Yeah,
261. 1:08:20right. A hotel entrance.
262. 1:08:22Exactly.
263. 1:08:23Okay. Where is there comparison?
264. 1:08:3410 minutes ago. I ask that we put this on another agenda that the client or the applicant, excuse me, come prepared with visuals so that we can understand as a group we can understand what these words mean and give us time to really be in a more prepared way to deal with this this whole issue. Um so um and I also could feel [clears throat] this meeting spinning out of control. So what I would like to do is make a specific request to the applicant that you be prepared.
265. 1:09:04We may decide tonight to have a second meeting in September. U but that should yet have to be decided. So perhaps within two weeks or at least by our October meeting. Uh I think that we need a deep dive on what you're talking about. So um [clears throat] is that is that request clear?
266. 1:09:22Yes.
267. 1:09:25Any other architectural questions? And I have the traffic and I'll quickly go over some things. I promise it'll be quick. I I did a I don't I like yourself I don't actually care so much about the numbers like but there were some other like small discrepancies in the answers. So the office
268. 1:09:43we haven't discuss is it okay if I send them like there's like a whole bunch of like weird I think maybe we'll receive anything you guys sent to us we'll we'll talk about it
269. 1:09:57anything else we have one final presentation six
270. 1:10:04good evening Mr. chairman member student health commission. For the record, my name is John Clowning. I work for Kimley Horn. I'm a professional engineer licensed to practice in the state of New York and have over 30 years of traffic engineering experience. Uh we've conducted multiple studies for this application and they were submitted to your board, reviewed by your consultant. Um phase one which is the subject of this application is a request for approval for 135 and 166 residential units which is 31 more than the building
271. 1:10:35there. Now as such we only had approximately 15 more trips to the surrounding roadway network. We studied multiple intersections in the area. The intersections currently experience good traffic operating conditions qualified as level of service B or better on a scale from A to F. uh delays are projected to increase by less than a second and specific to the engineers question regarding uh state and um the construction logistics plan we will have a specific work zone traffic control construction logistics plan we work with the city typically this consists of identifying a truck route to make sure that all construction vehicles use this route the appropriate route to and from the site we make sure that construction traffic activity and construction workers ers do not impact parking uh in
272. 1:11:25the neighborhood and uh we will maintain appropriate access for emergency medical services um emergency services. The closure of State Street is one of the least used streets in the area. It's kind of on the back side of town. So it's anticipated at this point in time that State Street may be closed during construction to facilitate construction activity would minimize the impact to the other streets in the neighborhood. Um there's about 100 trips in the busiest hour at the J state street which is not a very big number. Uh we've studied the diversion of those trips to Columbia Street which
273. 1:12:01is the next street over and that analysis indicates that the impacts will be similarly nominal. Um, for clarity, it's not proposed to to close State Street after construction of phase one, but we did study it as part of phase two of this project for secret related issues because if we didn't, we might be told that we were segmenting the process, which is impermissible. So, um, I I just want to make clear that it's not proposed as part of this application to close State Street permanently. And if that were ever proposed, it would require a whole further review by the city. So, but that's basically the traffic in a nutshell. I'm happy to
274. 1:12:39answer any specific questions you may have.
275. 1:12:47Where do you start? [laughter]
276. 1:12:49I did see a big flood of reactions about the idea that u just it's not quite a comment yet, but that that so you're saying that per your professional assessment the current traffic pattern.
277. 1:13:00Yep. that it would be less disruptive in the surrounding neighborhoods to close the state street between second and front where there's no driveways or places to go really just a way to get down front street. That's correct.
278. 1:13:14Maybe take a right to the dog park.
279. 1:13:16Yes.
280. 1:13:16So traffic would just continue another block and go down Columbia Street.
281. 1:13:21That's exactly what is intended. And that that's meant to reduce the impact on the the traffic or like the staging of materials on
282. 1:13:30Exactly. So the staging materials, pouring concrete, lifts, stuff like that require heavy vehicle equipment. And typically what you do is you close lanes, divert pedestrians over to the other side. And so you can if if it's approved by the city and we'll have to work through the the process with the city for the it's a temporary condition, right? um for the construction traffic management plan that you can take care of all those bigger truck activities and not have the pedestrians anywhere near it. And it is an inconvenience to go over one block, but you know, in my
283. 1:14:02opinion, it's a temporary condition. It's not a significant inconvenience.
284. 1:14:14I guess that's all. There was some confusion about State Street at our site. One member of the HH team declared it was going to be made one way. Um there was also confusion about the location of the curve in relationship to the width of the street and we we requested at the site visit that we be prepared to to show us exactly what the configuration and um and use of step would be after phase one. Um are you prepared to do that now or do we pick that up in our next meeting? I I would prefer to pick that up in the next meeting because that's the specific location of the curb is not something that I was asked to address and I'd like to just confer with the site civil engineering that right
285. 1:15:02there's a lot of confusion about sort of
286. 1:15:06so ju just to be clear permanently following construction for phase one it's not proposed to make state one way or no ways basically supposed to keep state street the way it is there will be some
287. 1:15:19good parking
288. 1:15:20so there there is parking proposed on one side I believe [laughter] and there be minor modifications to the curb associated
289. 1:15:26I think once again this is a it would be helpful for us to be able to see uh what it what the plan is so
290. 1:15:32absolutely
291. 1:15:32any other questions all right thank you all very much that was a very detailed report you feel well yes very good information so now thank you for those who come to speak for your patients while we went through this but it gives you a real flavor of the exciting work that we do. [laughter] Really, really exciting stuff.
292. 1:15:57Well, Nathan, Nathan gets very excited about this. Um, so we're going to open the public hearing. Reopen the public hearing. And we need a motion to reopen public hearing.
293. 1:16:08Some move. Sarah moves. A second, please. Team, please.
294. 1:16:15Okay. Yes. Black. Yes.
295. 1:16:20Spear.
296. 1:16:21Yes.
297. 1:16:22Yes.
298. 1:16:26So, a few ground rules. Um, this is the third public hearing we've had for oral comments plus several weeks of uh for written comments. U the deadline for written comments of September 1. We'll decide after tonight's hearing whether or not we are going to keep closed the public hearing. U just a couple of ground rules. Each speaker is allotted three minutes. Uh that's not to limit what you said, but that's to create a a balanced and fair circumstance so that everybody gets the same opportunity. Um
299. 1:17:05not only for this public hearing, but for all public hearings uh so that there is transparency of fairness in terms of opportunities to speak. We've had over 300 public comments uh both written and uh verbal and the board takes these comments seriously. It's a vital part of the heart process. Um, as you may have heard earlier, uh, for the first, uh, from the launch of the public hearing until August 9th, uh, rather than trying to respond to each question individually, uh, we analyzed the questions and created nine categories that the questions fell into and then constructed questions for the applicant
300. 1:17:45uh, around those nine categories. Um, so it's a serious contribution to the record. Um, one of the things that we ask is that you address your comments to the planning board and not to uh other members of the uh of the audience tonight. Um, this is an opportunity for you to express your opinion, but it's not a question and answer session. The board is here to listen um and to uh and to learn from your lived experiences, from your point of view, from your history about uh uh about the project.
301. 1:18:18Um, as I said, we re received a lot of comments and I want to mention that some of the comments that we received are raising subjects that are not matters that the planning board's charged with deciding. It's not that they're not important, they're just not in our uh land, so to speak. uh issues like uh well HHA's financing model or tenant eligibility or HHA management or the broader questions of housing uh affordable housing policy and placement those are those are the domain of other folks. So, it's not that
302. 1:18:54we don't care about that. And as individual citizens, we may have opinions about that, but around this table, our focus is more on massing scale, neighborhood compatibility, site design, pedestrian environment, traffic, parking, emergency access. Those are the kinds of issues that we deal with. So, you may stand up today and say, "We don't need affordable housing." Well, you certainly have the right to express that, but it's just not a matter that that the planning board takes into consideration as we evaluate the application that's before us. Also, ask
303. 1:19:27that we treat this like a neighborhood meeting. Uh we all are generally neighbors with each other. So, I ask that you be civil and uh thoughtful and respectful of your neighbors. And we look forward to hearing your comments. And Linda is going to be calling folks up to speak. And my partner Sheen is going to be the timekeeper and he'll give you a warning at what about 30 seconds or Yeah.
304. 1:19:5630 seconds. Okay.
305. 1:19:59London.
306. 1:20:01David.
307. 1:20:03Who was up first?
308. 1:20:05First of all,
309. 1:20:08that was your name.
310. 1:20:10Hi. Um, my name is Doug Meyer. I'm a resident. I actually live on Second Street. And there's just a lot of lot of statements and questions that I just want to throw out here. Um, one of the first things that I'm really kind of concerned with is the timeline. I have not heard from anyone that's been up here yet what really the timeline is. Just let's start with the remediation and then doing doing the borings. I I don't know what the time frame for that is. And I think that's a very important thing when you're talking about the neighborhood itself because this construction project, if you can't give us a timeline on that, construction
311. 1:20:43doesn't even start until that's finished. So, how long is the construction from the beginning to the end of phase one? because I think it was a great thing that you that the traffic sorry I don't know your name mentioned that they would maybe be closing off State Street between Second and Front Street for staging and everything else which I think is great but being on North Second Street brings up a lot of other issues because you're going to have the redirection of the parking lot of 51 spaces that has never been on
312. 1:21:15North Second Street before um coming onto North Second Street. It's going to be almost directly opposite of Rope Alley. So, you're going to have almost two intersections right there. So, you're going to have I was reading um yesterday they're uh proposing or guessing 125 in the morning, maybe 115 cars, which they say is nominal. In addition to that, um I don't think that's really nominal because North Second Street is not that busy the street. um with with parking, especially when you get into certain se sections that it can be difficult for two cars to
313. 1:21:47pass when there's parking on both sides. Um I was also really curious because I've looked at the plans many many times and I've never seen where is sanitation going to be picked up. Is that another thing that's going to happen through that port or portal that goes into the parking area? Um and if it is then is there enough space? I know that they're talking about the fire trucks being able to turn around the radius, but will sanitation trucks, where are all the deliveries going to go to? Whether you're you're talking, you know, uh UPS,
314. 1:22:18uh the the post office, any others, uh all maintenance vehicles, where are they going to go through? Are they going to now go through Second North Second Street? Because right now, sanitation for the Bliss Tower is on State Street and it's like really open and right there. So, that's one of my big kind of concerns. Um, in addition to how long is this going to take? How long as residents in this area? Are we going to be surrounded by all of this construction, all these trucks, all of this kind of upheaval? Is it going to be years? You know, you've got phase one, you've got phase two. Um, there I there
315. 1:22:54there's just so many little little issues here. Um, Mr. Gorland had stated that the the the actual the building itself was in keeping with Hudson. It is actually not. You have not only four stories, but you have five stories when you go down into the lower areas where you're corning of Columbia and North Second or when you're going further on State Street down, it becomes a five-story building. So nowhere really in Hudson do we have four and fivetory buildings on the main street. Is it time? Okay,
316. 1:23:23I have a lot more to say. Thank you. You know something I forgot to mention just not Let's keep this nice and professional next.
317. 1:23:39I'm let Steve go.
318. 1:23:42Okay. Jessica Steve,
319. 1:23:53I'm gonna focus on fiscal issues and I may have some facts wrong and you're free to correct me if I am wrong, but my impression may be unbelievable, but it costs $80,000 per to and half of it divided with the state of New York. So it' be half of that. Um and the number of affordable units is going to increase from a about 100 units to 276 units. I have the numbers right. And my concern is if most of these residents are not paying taxes, uh given the burden on the school system
320. 1:24:54that it's going to force a tax increase for the city. And once there's a tax increase, then the value of the homes goes down. And then you got to raise the taxes even further to close the gap and you end up arguably with kind of a downward spiral spiral into hell. So that is something I hope this planning commission considers very seriously and very carefully. What is going to be the fiscal impact on the city? Because if I'm right, we need to take another look of what
321. 1:25:51we're doing. Thank you very much. Jessica.
322. 1:26:00Hi, my name is Jessica. I have prepared bullet points. Some of these things were slightly addressed, but let me just continue. Dignified housing requires more than maximizing unit count. Dignity needs natural light. Usable green space, safe places for children, manageable traffic, adequate parking, and buildings that connect residents to the surrounding neighborhood. It also means listening in to the people who will actually live there rather than treating density of funding formulas as ends in themselves. The current record does not yet show that the proposed density is supported by sufficient infrastructure,
323. 1:26:38open space, parking, neighborhood integration or resident input. A larger unit count is not automatically a better community and replacement housing should not simply exchange one set of deficiencies for another. Please require a plan that demonstrates dignity, livability, and appropriate density before approval.
324. 1:27:03Jessica, can I give my time to Sure. finally. [laughter]
325. 1:27:25Um, so we're kind of where I kind of left off. I mean, I I was talking about um the the the time frame and one of the things that that does concern me and a lot of the residents in in in in the neighborhood is what is going to happen. We know what we're looking at right now is phase one and phase two we're really not talking about, but phase one is done. All the residents move over into the phase one complex. Then if something happens with the financing, and I know that's not your perview, but if something were to happen with the financing, what does that mean for phase two? In phase two, the first thing in
326. 1:28:01phase two is actually tearing down the demolition of uh the Bliss Tower and the Colombia apartment buildings. So, are those just going to sit there derelct? I mean, does the the the state and is there a plan on on actually tearing that down? And then if they don't do that, then the other part of the building for phase two wouldn't be built. I mean, it there's a lot of issues there that are kind of concerning. And then you're also talking, you know, what is, as I said before, what is the actual time frame on
327. 1:28:30these things? Um, I I just it it's there was another gentleman talking earlier about the set. You all were talking about the setbacks and the church and the the parking lot and the L-shaped part of the building that comes out, which is it's not set back at all. It is directly on that property line which when you're looking at it from North Second Street, you're looking at four and five story building that between um the church property and State Street, you're looking at over 100 ft worth of
328. 1:29:00mass of the building that's d that's almost directly on the sidewalk. Four stories. It's not really in keeping with Hudson and or you know the the the architecture of town houses and and neighborhood. Then when you go from State Street to Columbia Street, you're having another enormous mass. It's, you know, they're planning on a huge inner park, which is great, but it's it's it's turning its back to the community itself because that whole section on North Second Street between State and Colombia is just this massive building with with with windows, four and five stories. And
329. 1:29:40it's, you know, if you want to look at from a pretty standpoint, from a from something that is compatible with the Hudson, it just does not fit the bill. It becomes this enormous institution that is right on the street and is is is not friendly friendly to the neighborhood at all. So, um I think that those are most of the points that um I want to make. I also do want to address one of the things that the gentleman was talking about because the traffic is very concerning to me as well. Currently now we only have 75 units that are being
330. 1:30:13occupied in um the Bliss Tower. I think maybe there's one one one unit within the Colombia apartments. So, there's not that many cars and the parking lot that's there um off of State Street is right in the park where all the the the remediation needs to be done. That has I think 26 spaces and at this point even those 26 spaces maybe 18 or 19 when most people are there. But when you currently, but when you're looking at when you're looking at 51 parking spaces that are on North Second Street, that's really concerning to to to us because they're going to be exiting and entering. And again, where are all these
331. 1:30:54deliveries going? I have not seen anything on any of the plans where sanitation goes, where deliveries, how is that working? And it's also kind of scary, too, because we were just hearing that there is only one entrance, one lobby entrance into the building. So that's all I have to say.
332. 1:31:12Thank you. No,
333. 1:31:16Frank. Well, I think um it was my what I was going to say was pretty much answered by one of the gentlemen who spoke earlier. So take it pass and spoke. Marcus Kemp,
334. 1:31:35did she jump over me? It was confusing because you were kind of trad.
335. 1:31:42Thank you. Good evening.
336. 1:31:44Affordable build housing and responsible planning really must go together. Affordability does not eliminate the ordinary planning questions. This board must consider project of this size affects traffic, parking, drainage, construction safety, emergency access, green space, surrounding streets and city services. These issues affect the Bliss residents as well as the surrounding neighborhood. The current record does not clearly show how these impacts are going to be evaluated, what standards are being applied or what mitigation will be required when the problems are identified. The importance of creating affordable housing should call for more scrutiny. Please require a
337. 1:32:29complete record accessible to all on these impacts before granting final approval. Thank you very much.
338. 1:32:36Thank you, Marcus.
339. 1:32:40Hi. Um so, um
340. 1:32:46sorry.
341. 1:32:47Yeah. So, okay. So, so let me start. My name is Ali. Um I'm I'm Hudson resident.
342. 1:32:53So, friends of second street shirts. Um, we've heard that Mayor Ferris recently described the Bliss phase 1 redevelopment as funded and non-stop at this point. If that accurately represents our current situation, we respectfully ask the mayor to confirm and explain it publicly. If this specific plan is already irreversible and not subject to change in scope, why is the planning board continuing a public hearing? Why is the zoning board of appeal still considering your variances? and what meaningful decision remains for either the planning board or the public. I've learned of previous meetings and forums leading up to where we are today. But I've also become increasingly aware of how unaware most
343. 1:33:34of us and residents are of the details of this plan. We ask for clarification on exactly what has been funded, what work is actually begun, and if it's true that the project cannot be stopped in stopped or changed in any way. At this point, we also ask this board to affirm that this review remains independent and that public participation can still influence the project size, design conditions, and ultimate approval. Otherwise, this public process becomes little more than a formality. Thank you.
344. 1:34:03Tell me your name again.
345. 1:34:05Me ne surname a l i.
346. 1:34:08Thank you.
347. 1:34:08Thank you.
348. 1:34:09Thanks for your comments.
349. 1:34:10Are you all set on the names for we're going to get back?
350. 1:34:13We need to be back.
351. 1:34:14Okay. I just want to make sure you you have but you have your thing for me before we go on the next state but I would like to repeat them. Um my name is Janette and I'm from the Hudson resident. This proposal would d more than double the development size. the existing 135 apartments become 276, a net increase of 141 units. Even at an average of 2.1 people per apartment, the completed development could could house roughly 580 residents. That a substantial concentration of people and activity on this site. Yet, the current record does not provide a clear final population projection or bedroom mix. At
352. 1:35:07full buildout, the plan provides 174 parking spaces with mild peak demand of 167, only a seven space cushion. Questions also remained about traffic, emergency access, school enrollment, sanitation, and demands on city services. Please require reliable population, parking, and service impact analyses before approving a development of this scale.
353. 1:35:32Thank you, John Boy. Your boy been getting your voice to read. Savior of the tree of peace and now originator of the shimmer mythology seeking ethical restoration through sovereign humanity, sacred honor and spiritual harmony. So this project now I'm also been an observer of the of the munical process. I've watched a lot of these meetings. I've been to more planning board meetings and some planning board members. Okay. So, I'm actually quite impressed with the developer. I mean, I know what they went through. I was there two years ago. They were looking for $2
354. 1:36:22million for a grant they didn't get for the demolition of building. Okay, that didn't happen. But that time I said who thinks this building is not coming down? You look at the facts I will tell you one thing from the site visit that kind of pe my curiosity was this word hydraysis. Now if you look into the engineer probably understands what I'm talking about. If you look at hydraulysis that is the degradation of the material concrete you know that the slabs of the existing building are made up
355. 1:37:00for the people walking. So I said at the last meeting this building's coming down whether it comes down crumbly or it comes down through some sort of a managed construction process. And I I I got to tell you, I'm very impressed with Monaco and their and their work and how they've maneuvered and managed and and and and shifted and and adjusted to the various you know things that came up like seven story. So [clears throat] I would say it's not a perfect world and moving forward
356. 1:37:41I don't see another plan and if there was another plan it would be something worthy of of considering but currently we have this plan. Now, this developer has really [clears throat] been quite accommodating from my and flexible and willing to listen and hear and adjust and and make the changes and we have this what we have now. Is it perfect? No, it's not a perfect world. It probably never be perfect. There's always going to be something wrong, but that's just, you know,
357. 1:38:15that's just the material. That's just the, you know, the ground that we're, you know, we're coming through. I'm supportive of the project. Right now you have 84 units or 75 units out of was it 132 135 you know that's like take away three stories of the building the existing building. It's not an eightstory building. Functionally it's a fivetory building with three extra floors that you know are a habit. So I'm in favor.
358. 1:38:46Thank you. That is
359. 1:38:54higher.
360. 1:39:00Then we have Katie. She also left here. [clears throat] Thanks very much. Thanks, Chairman. Thanks, planning board. I would love to uh advocate for this project. I love to see stuff getting built in Hudson uh and get involved and uh I can't advocate for this project. Uh it actually makes no sense to me. It feels to me like what we're doing uh is solving problems at a level of detail in behalf of the builder and I don't see the flexibility there since they're sticking to their economic model uh in terms of
361. 1:39:57number of units uh etc that they need to meet their numbers. It does not in my mind relate to the urgency of the need to take care of the folks at bliss and that should happen within a year not 3 years. It doesn't relate to a fundamental um tragedy about Hudson that needs to be addressed which is multi-generational poverty. And there's nothing in the history of housing projects that would suggest that helps that. It's a more complicated uh and more cohesive answer to that. And there's nothing in this project that
362. 1:40:45demonstrates that we accept what the good life is and can be in Hudson for everyone, which is greenery, trees, open spaces, sitting outside, picnics. The damn thing doesn't even have a grocery store or a cleaner or simple amenities that would make life possible to have some joy. I think the project should be reconsidered. I think the planning board needs to step back and say, who are we working for to make the builder wealthy on this project or for the people of the city of Hudson? Do you have something great? Thank you. Thank you.
363. 1:41:38That concludes our public.
364. 1:41:42Oh, I thought [laughter] you said
365. 1:41:57Claire City resident council person. I personally when I think of quality of life cleaner is not one of the first things that come to mind. Um when I heard your question asked Peter my immediate visualization since you know I might have stayed in a hotel or two big scale if you are in a back end hotel room there are secured entrances for people that are staying on that side of the building. That's what I'm envisioning. Not one entrance to the lobby for everybody. tenants have secured access to other points of the
366. 1:42:34building if I'm correct in that. Um maybe they can do a better job visualizing that, but that's what I'm hearing. As far as quality of life there, some of these families have lived in this type of neighborhood, a dense neighborhood since the inception of Bliss Towers. You're you're projecting onto them that a beautiful townhouse and spread out housing is what defines the character of a neighborhood that they have either decided to live in or would like to continue living in. Their relationship to their neighbors have been articulated at meetings that
367. 1:43:11many of you have never attended at the housing authority. Most of this design came from hearing tenants that do attend meetings and what they would like to see for their quality of life. So understood, we're all neighbors. We live in the city of Hudson. Many of you live close to Bliss Towers, but you don't live in Bliss Towers. And there are two residents here that have been here since the beginning and continue to show up and listen to some of these comments. They share their feedback with the developers. One of them sits on the housing authority board. I think it's very brave of them. And I think their public comments need to be almost more important when we're considering what quality of life for this property actually is. Thank you.
368. 1:43:54I'd like to ask if there's anyone else that would like to speak. Um, we have two two individuals that raise their hand. First, the speaker and then
369. 1:44:11Hi, I'm Eli. I live on State Street. I was going to speak but I hear you know couldn't help it. Uh I want to say something on and I hear like a lot of this quality of life sound uh and about how uh people are worried that it's going to be just like a solid block of building and and and that the green space in the middle turns its back on the city which is it seems so silly to me because that's I mean I live on state that's exactly what my building does.
370. 1:44:44[clears throat]
371. 1:44:44That's exactly what all the buildings on my street do. I have a backyard. You know, no one's allowed in my backyard. I turn my back on the city every day when I sit in my own little private green space. And I think it's silly to think that our other neighbors shouldn't be able to enjoy that same kind of like hug of a building that we all enjoy for our own. And in regards to the grocery store, we're only grocery is 100 ft away. So I think one
372. 1:45:14Thanks.
373. 1:45:19Yes. Hi, my name is Dan McMullen. I live uh in Hudson and I have a studio on Ro Valley. Will you speak? Uh my name is Dan McMullen. I live in Hudson. I have an artist studio on Ro Valley, which is where I work. And um I uh [clears throat] used to public speaking but I am concerned about the density. I don't think that this project can be taken back to the drawing boards. Uh there are 75 residents. I don't see why they can't build a building for 75 residents and
374. 1:45:53then [clears throat] uh continue on 135 to build a a project for 276. Uh it just seems like it's changing. um the landscape of our neighborhood uh where I live. Also, uh we've had problems with water in our in our uh home [clears throat] on Robinson Street and um in our apartments there and in the basement. And I I'm concerned about this aggregate uh peers. I don't really know if what analysis of that really is. Um there's a a huge problem in basement on Robinson Street with water and I don't know if this is solving that problem. Uh
375. 1:46:41Bliss Towers since it was built in 1973 has had problems with water. I don't know how that HHA has uh addressed these problems. There's never been uh [clears throat] proper maintenance of that building going forward. I don't know MCO which is based in Scarsdale. I don't know [clears throat] if they're aware of uh I don't know if they're invested 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 50 years in this project that they're building. Are they going to manage this project? Is AHA going to manage this project? What's going to happen in 10 years with this building? What's going to happen in 20 years, 30 years?
376. 1:47:20These are the problems that we've had with [clears throat] me. Um, so I'm very concerned about that. [clears throat] Uh, we live in Hudson and um, we're missing down I had a blue shot yesterday so well I didn't want to come here and I didn't want to. So I am concerned about the long-term durability. I'm concerned that is Mal going to manage this? Is HHA going to manage this? What's going to happen to this building in 10 years? What's going to happen in 20 years? What's the problem being that the residents have got a problem with and are we taking care of revising the supply in a proper way?
377. 1:48:01Thank you, Dan. Claire,
378. 1:48:04just one more comment. I also wanted to express I have full faith in the planning board to do their due diligence. SRA is a huge part of the planning board process. So many of the questions that were asked of the planning board do get addressed by secret. If it doesn't pass SERA, then that means that the quality of life is severely affected. So, if they determine that it doesn't affect your quality of life, I would remind you this is why this board is put in place. If there are other candidates that you think could do a better job at the planning board process, you should probably nominate them.
379. 1:48:37I'd be happy to vacate my seat. [laughter]
380. 1:48:43It's the last.
381. 1:48:46Okay. Please introduce yourself please.
382. 1:48:50My name is Estra Oskan.
383. 1:48:52I live here.
384. 1:48:54Could you say your name one more time?
385. 1:48:55Estra Oska.
386. 1:48:57Thank you.
387. 1:48:58Um my question is are there any other alternative site analysis been completed? uh because just uh building on a site um a soil if the soil conditions will be costly and also demolition of the police towers when the new construction is finished. So close proximity um to the newly built um uh residences will be a problem in my opinion. [clears throat] Um yeah. Yes. And uh residence protection during construction [clears throat] before approval. I will um there will be a detailed construction and res protection plan addressing the demolition and early
388. 1:49:52those are talked about. Um but yes, are there any alternative site analysis performed and I would like to see that.
389. 1:50:05Thank you for your comment. One last call for public comments. One last call.
390. 1:50:14Someone online public hearing is just for person.
391. 1:50:19Sorry. Um any other public comments? Okay. Board. Thank you all uh for participating in this process. Your contributions are vital to helping us make an informed uh and aware of decision. And uh as I said before, all of your comments will go into public record and we will take into consideration your thoughts, your points of view, your recommendations, and your questions. Um, now turn to the board to discuss whether or not we continue the public hearing with an adjournment or we close the public hearing.
392. 1:50:54I have a procedure [clears throat] or question. Yeah.
393. 1:50:57What's the guiding logic here because I feel like the cons there there I want to like artificially constrain us to that 62day window. Um, that said, I feel like the public comment record is deep. Yeah,
394. 1:51:13and we've read it. A lot of it's the same points made over and over, but I don't think we're going to learn or hear anything new
395. 1:51:22personally, but I don't know. Yeah, it's also presumably we could close it at the next meeting, have another meeting like this. Um, we could, you know, we could vote sooner or later as long as it's within that 62 day window. that was like is our job to determine we've heard enough we feel so good or is it to start this 62day clock that we need to adjudicate within
396. 1:51:54I I feel like that's my I'm basically exactly where you are I I think that I would describe at this point [laughter] no I feel like we've heard a lot of comments and a lot of them are highly overlapping if you look back at all hundreds of them there are at this Um but I do have the same question that you do around procedure and there's stuff that we have not received from the Apple and and do we get ourselves all all of us like both in like a weird I
397. 1:52:26think you addressed that there's a way to work around this but when we were chatting a sidebar we should probably have that conversation as a whole question.
398. 1:52:35Yeah. Well, the yeah
399. 1:52:37without without endear hesitate to talk about the legal but I believe I understand this and those on board agenda can correct me where I'm wrong but I think our job is to feel to reach a conclusion that we have heard we have thoroughly heard the public's point of view and uh and I would agree that I feel like we have and it's been rich and it's been deep
400. 1:53:01and it's been all over the place but that's kind what we want, right? So, if we vote to close, then we are required to take action on the application within 62 days.
401. 1:53:14Yeah.
402. 1:53:147 days a week or is that count Sundays or is that it's 62 days? One of the things that I think we can maybe discuss with the applicant attorney is there's a possibility if depending on the amount of time that they need and volume of information coming back, they could relax that they could agree to give a little bit more time to that. Some sides can agree. I certainly will work with the board. You know, I was just speaking to John Mattio and if the board feels more comfortable leaving the public hearing open, we're fine with that. The board would rather close the public hearing, that's fine as well. Whatever [clears throat] submissions we're making are really just amplifications and more
403. 1:53:51detail of what we've already presented. So, we're not going to be putting in any new information. So, I think the board is free to close the public hearing if they want. And obviously once you close a public hearing starting the clock you know we would work with the board with a reasonable time frame to extend that time if needed.
404. 1:54:07I see. So the clock is like to protect the applicant from that's not taking action but if you guys consent
405. 1:54:13by mutual consent we can extend it depend on right. So any other thoughts or I mean my only thought is like what do we do with that time and uh you know are we deliberating on conditions and are we using the time sort of you know oh
406. 1:54:29yes and how much time do we give ourselves to work through this?
407. 1:54:33Yeah. I think that right I would be persuaded that we keep having public meetings people work they they they make an effort to be here make an effort to bring their point of view but if we feel like we've really heard the whole story then is that really fair to the public to to extend it just because we have a process question that we're trying to protect ourselves We could do a wish, but you know, I would love to know if other people think we should leave it open, but I feel like
408. 1:55:10we've heard every flavor of
409. 1:55:13Yeah.
410. 1:55:13a series of different themes. So the chair would entertain a motion to close public [clears throat]
411. 1:55:34yes
412. 1:55:37yes
413. 1:55:38yes
414. 1:55:41thank you thanks again we're going to take 10 minute break so folks hang around. [clears throat] You're welcome. If you'd like to get out of here.
415. Part 2: the rest of the agenda
416. 0:02by the agenda. Uh at this point in the agenda, initially originally we were going to engage with the applicant uh regarding the question answers to their questions in our first round of public hearing questions, the nine buckets that we created that they responded to. But during the break it because of the length of the meeting, but also it may make more sense. Uh and this is kind of a three-part question. Uh tonight we're we are going to discuss some additional buckets. I think I'm going to be recommending three or four additional buckets. Whereas the other one was a 16page set of questions. This
417. 0:43will be more like a two-page. Um the second part is I'm going to recommend that we have a special meeting in September uh late September and Linda suggested the 30th and at that meeting then not only would we res engage uh HHA in questions about the first round of questions but also to just do the whole uh the whole second round as well and that makes a I think a more seamless process. It also saves us probably an hour tonight. Um, and that meeting if we do the meeting on
418. 1:19September 30th would be a single uh single subject meeting just lately each year. And it also Peter gives us an opportunity to probe more deeply about some of those design and configuration issues. And we've asked the applicant to be sure to bring a a full response to those questions both visual visually and and there's also a set of questions I think Nathan that you had about the consistency of content across the many documents. So, I think that that meeting would be an opportunity for us to kind of tidy things up, u kind of put a
419. 1:53ribbon on the public hearing back and forth between the planning board and the applicant and, uh, and continue to move this project along. So, I think what I'd like to do is a motion required to schedule a
420. 2:06yes,
421. 2:07a special meeting. I'd like to entertain a motion to rather than put the date in it in the first round. Let's just get a vote on whether or not that's approved by the board to schedule a second meeting in September.
422. 2:21Huh?
423. 2:22It's informal.
424. 2:24It's informal.
425. 2:25Yeah.
426. 2:27Okay.
427. 2:28Just for that when you have the
428. 2:31Okay. Well, let's keep it in formal. I thought you said I'm getting a motion.
429. 2:35Uh first of all, just your reaction to a special call meeting.
430. 2:39Okay. All right. Okay. Everything. All right. Then one second.
431. 2:44Let's look at the 30th and see what that looks like on our system.
432. 2:48Uh Jeff, are you in the room?
433. 2:54We'll make it work. Don't worry.
434. 2:55Okay. All right. Does this sound all right everybody? So So as long as it's after 6 p.m. I can do what's
435. 3:03after 6.
436. 3:03Yeah.
437. 3:04Does six work? Okay. So, uh, if there's no objection, then we're going to have the special call meeting. Uh, the HHA group, uh, doesn't have to stay now. And, uh, and we'll I'll work with Jeff to make sure our our mutual our mutual expectation for that meeting is lined up and the engineers need to continue to press on. Uh, we don't want any engineering issues to to unnecessarily slow the process. So, so with that, um, those that aren't presenting from this point forward or treated, um, is there
438. 3:44any expectation that you want to just give them that you do want to see at that meetings?
439. 3:49Yeah.
440. 3:50Like attach when they're going to do architectural or when, you know, just so there's there's a sense of what they do.
441. 3:59Repeat that.
442. 4:00I thought we kind of address that as we going tonight. Oh, welcome to you.
443. 4:06Yeah, I do feel clear on that.
444. 4:08The only the only one that if it was at all possible to have the construction management plan or at least a draft version of it that we could discuss. I think that's there was a big chunk of the comments that were about that that were effectively unanable because of that the most helpful need.
445. 4:25Yeah, I think there State questions. I think there were both aesthetic but also practical questions about access into the building. So we'll have an opportunity and then Jeff uh what we decided to do is rather than me repeating now one of your colleagues will we'll brief you on
446. 4:42we'll meet on the 30th probably.
447. 4:44Okay. I'mware. Thank you.
448. 4:48So for those who want to stay stay if uh if uh if you want to leave this will be a good time for that. All right.
449. 5:06I'll move to schedule a special meeting at 6 p.m.
450. 5:09Yes, sir. If I could just respond to the question. We can have the logistics planned within two weeks. So, you'll have it at least a week before the meeting on your 30th.
451. 5:17That would be anything that you're going to present.
452. 5:20We'll get it. We'll get it to you at least a week before the meeting. And Jeff, what we're about to do now is talk about the second trial comments and vote on another series of questions to send to you. Uh probably two pages instead of 16. Uh and I will send those over to you tomorrow as soon as the board approves. Uh I my recommendation. So and it would be great to have you response by the 22nd, I think. 22nd, 23rd, whatever. for a week a week before a week a week before we can get out.
453. 5:54Motion to
454. 5:57schedule special meeting 6 p.m. on September 30th at the county city hall second.
455. 6:08Yes. Black.
456. 6:10Yes.
457. 6:11Yes. Jes.
458. 6:12Yes.
459. 6:13Yes.
460. 6:14Yes.
461. 6:20Okay. We now need to uh have a discussion about our August 24th site visit so that we can put that activity on the calendar. Not the calendar, but on the record. Um what we need is uh that we did meet at 1 p.m. on August 24th home site at the Bliss Tower front entrance. Um all board members were present except for uh Mr. Michael and u we did have a a proper quum. We called meeting to order. Uh we toured with Jeff and his at HH18 uh and had an opportunity to ask
462. 7:01technical questions and clarifying questions of a judge and his advisory group. Um we uh adjourned uh at about 210 without having dealt with anything consequential in terms of decisions of the board, votes and so forth. I think that's the outline that that Andrew wanted to have on the record. Is there anything anyone would like to add to that? That seemed to cover the facts. Okay, great. Thank you. Do we need to have any further engineering update from from your
463. 7:41No, I think what I went through in the beginning is fine. I believe the applicant understands what we're asking. So um the next item for our attention is the second round of questions that were derived from the public hearings. Um, as you recall, our first document was created from the beginning of the public public hearing up until August 9th. And now a second group of questions needs to be uh organized starting from August 9th through tonight actually since we now close to volunteering. So um there are I came up with four new what I'm calling
464. 8:24buckets and uh um that doesn't mean that that's a comprehensive list and that's the purpose of this discussion. It could be that some of these buckets are now resolved. So I think maybe it's if it's all right I'll just deal with each uh issue individually. Uh the first issue that had come up in public hearings was brownfield mediation and ground improvement coordination. But I think the question is do we feel like that has been adequately answered in tonight's presentation or do we want to have that as an additional uh subject?
465. 9:02It it felt like a good broad brush today tonight. Um, but do we want to do we want a deeper level of understanding and this may also we may also want to put a footnote on that based on public hearing tonight and that is do we the whole schedule of the brown field and soil remediation remediation but it's still on approvement do we feel like we know what that schedule is we'd like to have a I think the duration is probably something that you and you heard a comment on that the duration I think is important for
466. 9:38them to really uh uh give that duration of the time so there's a understanding
467. 9:43I think the other one was the expected uh maximum vibration
468. 9:49yes
469. 9:51and the duration of that so it's kind of the duration of everything
470. 9:56right um so the language that I was using is please identify the current status of the New York State DEC review and approval of proposed brownfield remedy. Describe how the proposed ram aggregate peers and foundation work will be coordinated with that remedy including disturbances of contaminated soil and groundwater proposed cover system soil and groundwater pathways. Those are words that I kind of scrape together, but I really want to have you Tom give us a little bit more language on that. But broadly speaking as a category, does that feel like one we want to include?
471. 10:36I will say I feel clear on this now, but it sounds like there's no problem in asking people to submit it in writing.
472. 10:42Okay.
473. 10:43And we didn't talk so much about groundwater, but
474. 10:48any other comments on this first point? Second point I had was phase one programming and sequencing alternatives. And this was an issue that was brought up public hearing. regarding a little bit tonight. It was discussed by the board tonight. Uh did HHA evaluate a smaller phase one principle addressing the relocation existing HHA residents or sequence involving redevelopment of some portion of the existing Bliss Tires Columbia apartment property before full development of site B? If so, summarized alternatives. Um
475. 11:23is this in our purview I guess or is this HH like Yeah. Exactly.
476. 11:32Well, it's I think we can inquire about alternative schemes that might have been considered and what led to decision to not do schema a new scheme B.
477. 11:44Yeah.
478. 11:44I don't think we can say we think this is too this project's too big. We want it to be smaller.
479. 11:49Right.
480. 11:50You know, and typically that's done early on, but with this a newer board, I think it would be helpful to get that in writing. everything that did transpire previously.
481. 12:00Oh yeah.
482. 12:00Also, I feel like the current like it reflects a couple of public comments that are trying to say like why wouldn't you just if there's only 75 tenants, why not just house them first in phase one and my understanding is that would be against the law. It's a one to one unit replacement. So putting that on the record might clarify with it.
483. 12:17Okay.
484. 12:20That's my understanding. Is there Yeah, there may already be an answer on this one because there's there's so much in there.
485. 12:29Yeah,
486. 12:29the answer's already that sort of some
487. 12:33but there might be some I think partly because we haven't had many questions. I think some parts of that may have already done the third uh so we keep that in as a Sure. So third question is state street configuration and circulation that was addressed tonight. uh please uh identify the current post configuration of State Street. I think we actually requested that that be brought back to us in the September 30th meeting. So why don't I keep this in the letter?
488. 13:03Yeah,
489. 13:03because it's already on their on their list.
490. 13:07And finally, uh uh relationship to adopted plans and policies. Uh, please identify the specific provisions in Hudson 235 and the strategic housing action plan that HHA considers applicable to the redevelopment and explain how the proposal response to them where HHA believes different goals and recommendation require balancing. Please identify those provisions and explain it to approach it. I think there's been a constant sort of exploration and struggle with how how how are we to understand the uh authority of the comprehensive plan and some of the other plans that that we are trying to operate
491. 13:52within. So, I I think probably it would be a a really good idea to have some some something in writing that's addressing these issues. Uh because it's certainly going to be brought up uh after our decision
492. 14:07in various ways. Sorry, I I just do note that the first question we asked on the last round was comprehensive plan alignment and just what we asked was providing there is describing how the proposal plan responds to goals and recommendations of the comprehensive plan and then identify the most important ways in which the proposed design advances the comprehensive plan. So, I was I didn't know if there was a more specific question we were trying to ask. Like, and I'm sorry I didn't get to give you this feedback before, but um
493. 14:37yeah, for example, concern about scattered psych. That seems like a big one. You know,
494. 14:42it's sort of flipping things around, but I think that the there was actually a very helpful comment from Michael Schmid like listing all of the various city and county plans this uh impacts. And so I don't know if there's like a way of like flipping around the question. I don't know. Yeah,
495. 15:02I had I mean I had my question about the the comprehensive plan um recommends or suggests a right to return policy and it references a specific policy from Portland which I think sort of prioritized um units for descendants of individuals displaced by development. And I put that to the applicant because I felt like um there was sort of context just to compare the policy they had with what the spirit of the plan was. I understand that it might not be within the bounds of our authority. But I felt like if if we're
496. 15:38to wait a comprehensive plan, we have a brand new comprehensive plan with a pretty progressive vision. It would be beneficial to understand how HHA is managing the displacement and right to return and how it compares to what was set out as aspiration plan. I I think because it's come up so much, I think it would be serve us to have some good some good solid writing around this topic that that we're asking the right questions and you're providing the kinds of answers that help us understand
497. 16:13um your your point of view. So, those are the four that I kind of teased out that seem to be new buckets compared to the first one. any other topics that or issues that you think need to be had. I mean, there was a lot about the parking lot entrance. I I also I'm like which what is the city agency that's responsible for making sure that I guess that is us but um the the parking lot entrance matters
498. 16:56or does it I don't I don't sometimes comments are not always grounded in reality so I'm not sure if that's actually referencing a real policy or law but um
499. 17:07I think what you're raising is everything because I didn't ask did we hear any comments tonight
500. 17:12that raised the issue the whole thing about refues and deliveries and you know that how do how do how do how do vehicles and people circulate around so I haven't I I don't think there was a specific issue that was new to me which is I think maybe have been addressed before but the sort of rogue alley alignment of the parking entrance I hadn't I had thought about the other parking lot and it's alignment to first um but not the other one and it's alignment to grow and how that might change the alley. But I'm not actually concerned about it personally, I don't think. But like it was a a topic that I had not even thought about.
501. 17:50Yeah, there's some there's some conversation about in the public comments that are coming from the like that I saw boss reference a lot of time is that that there's a there's a governance around the exit of a parking lot a certain size and its relationship to an intersection. My question is, do we consider the alley the alleys meet that same standard of sort of intersection potential?
502. 18:15What's disruption?
503. 18:17You know, I think that that's covered in their their traffic analysis where the cars are going and it's really to the level of service. And one thing uh that their report shows and what stated tonight is the minimum that you're going to have on on any of the areas that they studied is a level of service B, which is ends up being a very high number. It starts at A and works down to F, I believe. So B is actually very good level of service. Uh meaning that the
504. 18:44lower you get, that's the more delays you have. You're trying to get some place. Um, so I I think on the the general part it's good, but if there's a very specific uh location where you're concerned that cars are going to go in and out and we want a little ask a little more question on site distance or what that might entail um so that it could get coordinated maybe with the landscaping plan if you're trying to reconcile the visual appearance of that. I think that that would be an important question. Yeah, the curb on street parking next to it.
505. 19:16Could
506. 19:16that be could all this be put under the state street configuration and super is all related?
507. 19:22Yeah, I have one. I also noticed that sort of the language changed around the way they talked about the town houses and there was language in the beginning in earlier documents that had sort of separate buildings that really was described them as discrete four buildings and then six units and some of that language kind of shifted in ways that are confusing or create the opportunity for confusion and that was a comment that came in. So to the degree so the applicant can make explicit significant changes to the constructor that would be helpful
508. 19:51and that may be some text that's related to the other town houses as well too because there still is the the main discussion is on the larger buildings but there is if they get their variances that there is those small town houses. So it's not they're not town houses is the question. or not. It's actually one now. It's referenced as one multifamily building dressed up as townous whereas previously it was discrete town houses
509. 20:17is my understanding. It gave
510. 20:19Yeah, it's always been a townhouse style and you are correct. It's it's technically under the city building code it is one multifamily building but they're build they're going to it's going to appear as a townhouse style.
511. 20:31Right. And that that came through as a comment where people were confused about what that meant.
512. 20:37What are we functionally confused about? There's interior hallways or something or like that we're sort of hiding an apartment building or is it what's the what what's the confusion? Is it about the exterior or
513. 20:46Well, I think it's just clarifying what it actually is because if you look at the course of the descriptions, it wasn't it wasn't always a multi described as a multifamily building with townhouse facade alterations, right? became one multifamily building the facade.
514. 21:04I I'm just asking it was a I just didn't know. I don't understand.
515. 21:07I feel like so much of this is I just want I feel like we need to be clear about what we're talking about and just getting into a very you know a solid idea of what a thing is. Um seems like not too much to expect.
516. 21:21I guess the last thing that could put people's mind at ease and this is part of the brown field. So maybe to the question one that Ron's proposing is uh you know if if for example the the person on Robinson Street is concerned about ground vibrations at half an inch per second damaging their basement that's I don't my understanding is that's not what would happen but whereas the church next door is concerned about windows I don't know in meeting I did some small research and I it just seems like something that we could clarify like what the actual impact in terms of
517. 21:55the the width. It seems like people human beings can perceive it, but you know, when sheetrock cracks, when concrete cracks, when windows break, there's there's probably um some data out there that can help the public understand whether or not what they're feeling is actually a risk to their
518. 22:14I'm curious, uh our applicant, did you hear comments tonight that you would like to see addressed in writing? Um, honestly, a lot of it was a continuation of the main themes that we've been hearing for the last few months. Looking through my notes, excuse me, I have there's nothing new or interesting that came up uh as far as, you know, concerns, but I think it's a lot of stuff we've already addressed.
519. 22:41Yeah.
520. 22:41And we will continue to document,
521. 22:44memorialize our responses so that way it is clear and there's no confusion. Everybody knows what we're talking about. I have a question. You guys seem to be in favor of this and I was wondering I'm sorry the public hearing is over. Public hearing.
522. 23:00I'm sorry. I want to submit it in writing. So
523. 23:04that's over too.
524. 23:05Um
525. 23:06I I like the answer that question but I do it now. So I was asking um so are there other questions or subjects we'd like to add to this group before and am I hearing that we want a townhouse uh locust?
526. 23:26I mean that there can be clarification about
527. 23:28clarification what the project is. I think that's a fair question. Um so if the board would give me permission I'll turn this into a letter and send it over to Jeff. I hope by the end of business tomorrow, Jeff and a motion to approve that action would be appreciated. Thank you. Second,
528. 23:51Sarah and yes,
529. 23:55yes.
530. 23:56Yes. Jazz game.
531. 23:58Yes.
532. 23:58Spear.
533. 23:59Yes.
534. 24:00Yes. So, the next item uh on our topic for this applicant. Um I'm going to also suggest that we think about moving it to our September 30th meeting. And that's a general set of questions that the board would ask. We've been asking questions that were derived through public hearing. And then we also have our own issues that we are uh wanting to ask about based on our own research and our own uh analysis. So um it feels like that those questions could last until our September 30th meeting that's up to you. I I have one topic that I want to
535. 24:42raise just so the applicant has like lots of time to to think about it. Um, and I'm not looking for a specific thing, but I wanted to like rease the sequencing of phase one and phase two and the demolition and see if there's any way at all that we can like creatively work together uh to create protections for the city of Hudson and for residents and for everyone in the project. But the demolition phase like actually does happen in a timely manner. Um, and so that's I think a concern I
536. 25:13continue to have about the way that everything is faced currently. I've done a bunch of research about creative like financing structures like other ways that uh boards and applicants have worked together in other projects to do this. Um, I think that would just be a thing that we should all creatively think about. Is this the best possible way to sequence these things so that demolition actually happens? because that's the thing I think we all want to see across the board. And so demolition bracket
537. 25:51so um we're going to reorder the agenda then and say additional questions until our September 30th meeting. Um and uh that actually concludes this item on the agenda for tonight. Um some heavy lifting tonight. It's good work and thank you all for rolling up your sleeves and and doing the good work. Um, we have two additional items on the agenda that are excuse me, I hope you all get your overtime bonuses.
538. 26:23Thank you.
539. 26:28Uh, business is 810 Van Winkle Road.
540. 26:34Do we have representatives? Thank you for being here at this late.
541. 26:40Hi, good evening. Uh Andy Brick from the Brick Law Firm. I'm sub to John Hitchcock, our project engineer. Um we uh he's heading back for vacation, but I didn't want to lose the agenda spot. Uh very briefly, we received the engineer's comment letter. Uh 27 comments that we are in the process of responding to. We were hoping to have them ready for you this evening, but we didn't get there. Um so uh we are working on them. We need we think we understand them all. We think we can answer them all pretty quickly and if we have any question clarifications we'll reach out. That's okay. Um
542. 27:17the HOA had raised a number of legitimate concerns that we are going to respond to. I wasn't sure and and I would seek the board's input on whether or not you would prefer that we respond to the HOA in writing uh in advance of the public hearing or do we have the public hearing this application and we respond to everybody in one shot. It doesn't matter to us. I thought it would be cleaner to collect everybody's comments because things may come up at the public hearing that we would have to respond again. Our preference would be, you know, responding to everybody once after the
543. 27:52public hearing, but I would leave that up to you. Um, let's go ahead and deal with that right now. What's the board's opinion on that? We take the recommendation of the applicant as a as a an initial recommendation. And again, it's a question of timing. We're committed to answering every question raised by the HOA, by the public, by the board, by anybody. It's just we prefer to do it once rather than have to do it 12 times.
544. 28:20I'm so sorry. I was actually not paying attention to what's dangerous. I just
545. 28:26actually understandable that these are multif family townhouse style buildings and I was like what's at stake at the
546. 28:35so where he was at was we got some initial comments from the homeowners association
547. 28:40which was received and we included them with our comment letter to give them the benefit of here get started on this and you know don't go down the wrong path and because we felt that the homeowners association probably has a little bit more say or maybe they may have some restrictions or something else that they should know about that they may have to work around. So that was our our intent of getting them to. So then he was asking should we treat that as a public comment and wait for the public hearing
548. 29:08and address everything or would you like to see those questions answered first? Well, it seems like there's some benefit in shaping the other public commenters if they have something on the record if things have already been raised, but I don't know what how that changes procedurally. You know,
549. 29:25I mean, that's an excellent point. I guess when we respond directly now in advance of the public hearing, we maybe take some issues off the table.
550. 29:33Well, I was going to say I think it's always in the situation like that. Anything you can do to sit down with the homeowners or
551. 29:38Oh, yeah. We've been in contact and I can work things out. That's certainly going to alleviate a lot of extra comments at a public hearing.
552. 29:45Yes. And and I want you to be comfortable that the HOA is comfortable when we get to the point for decision. So we are working directly with them. Um so yeah, that makes sense. We'll answer it. Maybe that'll shorten the public here.
553. 29:58Okay.
554. 29:58Um and with the homeowners association, the comments and questions and concerns you're responding to. We don't know what the concerns are, right? We don't know what your response to them is.
555. 30:12Sure. Well, we we would CC you on everything.
556. 30:16Yes, absolutely. Um and and they they fall right now into into two broad categories. One is they have questions and concerns about the existing water pump station. It's kind of a weird situation where the city of Hudson owns the land underneath it, but our client was originally tasked with maintaining the pipes and the pump station itself. At some point the HOA started doing that. So we everybody needs to be on the same page about that particular issue. And then there was a stormwater pond that apparently failed and needed to be reworked. And we're proposing to change
557. 30:48the stormware ponds to bring them up to current stormwater regulations and they're concerned they don't want to have to pay for repairs for shoddy work again. So, um I think that one's easily addressed with some type of construction inspections during the during the process which we will then put on the table
558. 31:03and a but right to the back doors almost.
559. 31:07Sure.
560. 31:07Some of the some of the other existing units that are there. So, I think that's some of their concern that you you open up your door and you step out the back and you're standing in the storm water.
561. 31:16It's not off in the woods like most storm water ponds. It's literally right next to. So, yeah. So, they need a level of comfort. We'll provide that. Th those are the two main issues, but then they may have some more. Um, in terms of the public hearing, we can respond to everything. We would think it might be an appropriate time to schedule it for next month. Hopefully not behind the housing authority, but um,
562. 31:40you know, but that's up to you. That should
563. 31:46There's no public comment for the housing. Thank you. You don't have
564. 31:55to be your regular October.
565. 32:01Do you have any expectation in terms of how much interest is going to be in the public area?
566. 32:06I I think the HOA is very interested and rightfully so. Um and we think the HOA, you know, there have been meetings where there's been half dozen dozen people from the HOA here to listen. Um, we have been a contact with I can't predict numbers, but I definitely think they would be interested in it.
567. 32:24I go ahead and my only I'm not able to get the internet to work anymore. I don't know what's happened, but
568. 32:33it turns off.
569. 32:34It turns off. I was working to be
570. 32:40but I I had I did the only thing I had when I was like reviewing this before the meeting was a set of questions around the construction management plan.
571. 32:48If if I had sent those through window to you after this is that
572. 32:52absolutely and and and the engineering comments we're addressing had specific questions and we viewed that that's that construction management plan as a starting point. We wanted to get something to the HOA so they get discussed amongst themselves. We expect they're going to come back and want changes and we're willing to have that conversation. We're trying to work.
573. 33:10So, if you had 10 or 12 people, that's 30 minuteish uh public hearing. We could just tack that on to our October meeting. Yeah. And put it first.
574. 33:19Oh, thank you. Appreciate it. Um and then the one question I had,
575. 33:26remind me, we need to act on that.
576. 33:29Oh, yeah. We did. The one question I had on the the engineering comments is there was a suggestion that um we get architectural renderings or elevations of the buildings. We are building the exact same units that exist in an effort to keep cost down. We would ask is it okay if we just provide pictures of the existing buildings and say this it's going to be the same thing. Architectural renderings can be more expensive than lawyers and we're trying to avoid that possible because all it's going to do is be exactly what's there.
577. 34:02You we have the the blueprints are from like the 80s, right? The original planning
578. 34:07I think 90s. Yeah.
579. 34:08The original designs.
580. 34:09But the the nine units that we're seeking reapproval for are going to be the exact same units that are up there now. We're not proposing any changes whatsoever. It's going to fit right in. Post construction. You're going to drive through and not know what was original, what the new 9. It's going to look exactly the same. Quick question on that then. What is we ask for that so that the board knows what it's going to be built. Um what how what are you going to submit for a building?
581. 34:34I'm assuming that there's got to be a building plan.
582. 34:37There would be building plans.
583. 34:39I mean so an an elevation a simple elevation is acceptable. Doesn't have to be a color render. But if you have a black and white and then just have a list of what is the siding material and what are the proposed colors and then that way the board knows exactly what they're getting.
584. 34:58There's there's no material upgrades since like it feels like there should be like since 199 they're vinyl clad. Yeah.
585. 35:05Um so that stuff really doesn't change. Our intention is to make it because it's an HOA, everything has to be consistent and it's going to look exactly like the existing. So we we've committed to that with the HOA.
586. 35:17Okay.
587. 35:18They don't look like you were I get what you're saying. They don't they don't look outdated.
588. 35:23No. Yeah. I walked up there.
589. 35:26Yeah. So I don't know if they just picked a good design in the 90s or if they have been updated, but
590. 35:31yeah, they I think we just got lucky the first time. Yes.
591. 35:35Oh, they're broken up, too, so it's not going to be straight wall.
592. 35:38Yes, they're all
593. 35:40So, a motion to schedule the public hearing for 810 Van Winkle Road on September, excuse me, October 13th at 6 p.m.
594. 35:49It's a good walk, too.
595. 35:50Yeah, I'll make that motion.
596. 35:54All right. Second. Uh, second. Right.
597. 35:58Okay. Yes.
598. 36:00Yes.
599. 36:02Yes.
600. 36:02Spear. Yes.
601. 36:05Yes. Anything else? Great. No.
602. 36:10Is someone here?
603. 36:12Yes.
604. 36:13Okay.
605. 36:19Um Lennon Blancy, general manager industry. We have Urban Gard. Uh this first meeting I've attended, so it's very interesting. Uh currently we have a trailer outside our building at 8 do Street, a 10x32. Uh we are looking for approval to uh replace that trailer with a slightly larger trailer for additional office space um due to increased um personnel count and uh increase in machines that we are putting in our building. Oh, modular please.
606. 36:54Yes. Yes. N modular.
607. 36:58Uh we are looking to replace the existing trailer with a new trailer. Um
608. 37:07yeah, we're looking to do um potentially we would like a bathroom
609. 37:13in inside that trailer. We
610. 37:15don't have one down, but we think it would be a sleazy building trail. Currently it is in a parking lot off our main building. Um so uh we have employees now currently exit the trailer to access uh main building. Um
611. 37:34that means as far as sewer or additional things that we need to consider.
612. 37:39Oh we have two trailers now. one of which is sinking into the ground.
613. 37:44A building is be office trailer where houses our two seat department behind a building. Um that's one department that we want to bring inside and in order to do that we need that additional
614. 37:57I see. Yeah.
615. 38:02So
616. 38:02there's just these trailers on the side. Well, yeah, we want to replace with something that looks good and it a lot more functional, but the complex bathroom.
617. 38:12It wouldn't be big, but it would give us like every four or five offices and allow us to use the existing space, which is really good factory space.
618. 38:22And this small trailer that's there now, why can't you utilize that?
619. 38:28Small and it's old, but it doesn't have a bathroom and it is not anchored into anything. It's just a construction trailer. This is stuff that was put in about 30 years ago. Put on my not and actually even getting rid of old trucks and trailer and all that junk around didn't look good that my
620. 38:51Oh, I see.
621. 38:52So, is the proposal to remove the existing trailer?
622. 38:55Yeah, we remove the existing trailer and put the office in. It would look better. It would be more functional and uh it would be entirely on our land as well which is right now it sticks out into the city land about 5 something was confusing to us because
623. 39:12the back the two different
624. 39:15there's two there going in back of the building is the one that projects into the cabin building that's not
625. 39:27we're trying to get rid of both. So you're going to get rid of that. Sorry I'm I'm bald. We have two trails.
626. 39:35And the one's drawing the back trailer is not there. But you're looking at GPS.
627. 39:39Yeah.
628. 39:40Yeah. So you want to get rid of both of those.
629. 39:42Get rid of that one. Get rid of this. Replace this one.
630. 39:46Okay. And and you have a patient. We got trailer for mobile offices. The largest available size is 36 by 60. That was an 60 square ft. Is that the largest that would fit on the lot or that's a large that's available?
631. 40:05I think that's just what she put down. I mean, if we're buying my other offices, there's there's a lot of leeway and we would uh have to investigate this further and come to you with a final a final. But we don't have that yet. And frankly, you know, if we do it this year, I'm not 100% sure we get it done this year. I started in the planning and when I put in liquid nitrogen, it turned out to be such a problem. It's all three years, but I thought that would be a six month project. Nick Fox I believe
632. 40:41quoted he did step by and make sure he mentioned we have to have a certain setback from the building looked at the parking lot um on the other side as far as uh what the variances were in regards to that.
633. 40:57Yeah. So I I think as far as technically um having your site plan reflect that. So the code enforcement officer has you've already said that they're asking you to show setbacks. So that's a question that we have for you to add that to the the plan as well too. And I'm thinking to clarify if you did at least two sheets where you had an existing uh condition slashdemolition plan then it could be easily understood which of the the trailers are being removed.
634. 41:27They're both going to be pulled away.
635. 41:29Yeah.
636. 41:29Yeah. just would show a rectangle and say
637. 41:32and then there's an actual site plan that gets approved that shows the new proposed with the final size unit that you would like to complete.
638. 41:39We weren't 100% final size. That's the only reason we didn't sides anything. It has to be fairly small or long.
639. 41:48Yeah, I I personally like I'm living with this. I walk by there all the time. Um I I have no problem with them doing anything to be honest from where I where I'm sitting. Um
640. 42:05I tried to do that. We had very little we all wine that we
641. 42:11not not not anything but like what we're talking about here is essentially like quite small trail one. It's it feels almost immaterial to me. But yeah, I mean I I understand why it came to us because it purely for the park gaming off the that section of the codes as like I don't even know why this like
642. 42:36Yeah. Why we're hearing it.
643. 42:37Yeah.
644. 42:38I'm assum I'm looking at what Nick Fox had sent. Um
645. 42:44I'm assuming it's because it's a modification to their site. So yeah,
646. 42:48really they're changing their their site plan
647. 42:50and the I mean the nearest property is the BPW like bus like it's not
648. 42:58Yeah,
649. 42:58this will probably be pretty easy. I guess
650. 43:00I hate to say that I don't think there was plan.
651. 43:09Yeah. So that get conditional approval
652. 43:12that we get a good run. I think the biggest thing is to document this. So then um enforcement department actually has an approved plan by the planning board. That's kind of the more the ad I think administrative is more important on this one. Um to make sure there's a good match so that they can issue them a building permit which was reconnected conditional approval having the proper drawings and is that any way that we was that really answer your question?
653. 43:47I mean and I think where it's like sort of where you are is like if we can help these folks
654. 43:51Yeah. not have to do a whole another problem. Sure.
655. 44:08Wait, sorry.
656. 44:09No, you're separate.
657. 44:11Did we take action on the public hearing for we did correct? Yeah.
658. 44:18So, so what I'm going to propose with Rich's approval is that we approve the pro the project conditional upon having the the prescribed site plan drawings required by the code enforcement officer. Is that is that a good motion?
659. 44:40Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if everybody's comfortable and you don't care exactly where things are placed and you just want it within setbacks, if you give us a drawing that has the setbacks and shows the the units that are being removed and then the the final uh design
660. 44:57and then utility connections and then some of this you may ask why all that detail. Some of that then is for it goes through different offices in the town and then the assessor that is one of my biggest problems and probably one of the biggest questions too as well maybe yours because uh it is a flood plane and it's very the plumbing down there that piping the streets is not the greatest we have barely added
661. 45:25it's going to be interesting when we start adding family unit to that So would entertain such a motion.
662. 45:34I guess there's only I only have one sort of question. You're you're not adding the bathroom. Just to the plumbing question. Is this is there now they have to go into the building even during winter time. So I was as far
663. 45:45what I heard was that they're going to add a bigger unit with a bathroom.
664. 45:49Yeah. And there's no engineering anything around. I just make sure
665. 45:53that they show us the connection.
666. 45:55Okay. Great.
667. 45:56So along with utilities then you want to work.
668. 45:58Yeah. Yeah. And then ultimately you're going to have to just like we ask any other applicant get your TPW I think go I think it's almost like we're rushing this project through without reviewing any of the paperwork that is presented to us already.
669. 46:28Yes. be asked for more and yes they promise to give it to us by the next meeting but I just I'm not comfortable with approval I'm not there specific
670. 46:44well it's the whole application process here yeah know I'm reading for each and every one of them
671. 46:51yeah I'm just not comfortable with it I mean I just got it I just read it a couple days ago and it seems We're trying to rush it through. I want you, like you said, we like to help them get along and move on, but we have to do checks and balances here. We have to protect ourselves. Yeah.
672. 47:09Well, I think your recommendation, please wait. And uh so we withdraw my request for a motion unless anyone else has additional comments.
673. 47:19All right. So, we'll meet with you again next month on October 13th. We put you on the agenda and hopefully then we'll be able to have the materials that our engineer needs to give us permission to approve.
674. 47:34Okay. The sooner you get us that um then we can look at it and we can get some comments back.
675. 47:39Deadline would be what's the deadline for our September meeting? But we take you here. Deadline for the materials is 29th of September for our October 13th meeting. Thank you both for being here tonight for state by
676. 48:33Thank you.
677. 48:34All right. And I would motion to adjourn. Now you're paying attention to second. Uh all in favor sign I those opposed same sign we journed.

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