Columbia County Board of Supervisors, Regular Meeting transcript: FUTURE HUDSON

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0:02We have two committee meetings. Uh the first one is a special economic development committee. I'm going to turn it over to Chairman Scoda.
0:11Thank you, Chairman. I would like to open the economic development committee meeting to order. We have resolution number 343 of 2026 authorizing to schedule and hold a second public hearing regarding the progress and administration of a New York State community development.
0:26Second.
0:28Moved and second. All those in favor.
0:30Any opposed? Entertain a motion to adjurnn.
0:34Motion to second.
0:36All those in favor?
0:37Any opposed? Thank you.
0:40Now I'm going to turn it over to the finance chair, Jim Building.
0:43Yes. Like to call the finance committee meeting order. We have resolution number 343206.
0:50Second.
0:51We have a motion and second. All in favor? I
0:53opposed. Motion to make that motion. Second motion to second. All in favor?
1:00I call the full board of supervisors meeting to order. Please rise for silent prayer followed by the salute of the flag to the flag of the United States of America.
1:27stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all the clerk.
1:45Lutz
1:46here.
1:46White
1:47here.
1:48Here.
1:49Simmons
1:50here.
1:51Here.
1:52Adams
1:52here. W
1:54here.
1:54Collins
1:55here. Silverberg. Eldridge
1:58here.
2:00Here.
2:01Devor
2:01here.
2:03Here.
2:04Here.
2:06Here.
2:06Oaken.
2:08Musman here. Scalera
2:10here.
2:11Guzzi
2:11here.
2:15Here.
2:18191. 8.8. We have one. I need a motion to pay the bills, accept the treasury report, and file the minutes within the clerk's office.
2:30So move.
2:33All in favor?
2:34I oppose.
2:37Uh we have two proclamations. Uh the first I want to ask PJ Fer u to read a proclamation regarding the 25th anniversary of 911. the other.
3:08Okay. It gives me uh I'd like to personally thank the chairman for allowing me to present this proclamation. Uh, being an EMT and a firefighter myself, I can certainly empathize with the FDNY and the amount of lives of first responders and individuals that were lost that day. I personally lost people from my own department in Clover and I know what a devastating effect it has on the department, let alone what these what these people have endured.
3:37As I look around the room, especially in the front of the room here, I can I know that each of you know exactly where you were on that day, um I was in the basement of 610 State Street where the 911 center was located. Um and I was at a meeting there and the dispatchers called us in and said, "Oh my god, you have to see this." Well, immediately I thought there's going to be 100,000 people dead.
4:06And uh so we got our act together. Uh that afternoon I got a call from Department of Health from New York State Bureau of EMS and said, "I want you and a couple of other EMS leaders uh from the Albany area to figure out how we're going to support this and how we're going to send ambulances down." So, I went to Albany uh with a couple of other people, one of them you saw last month on this video, and we put together a uh a group of what we called strike teams, which is five of which we sent down on a regular basis to support in New [clears throat] York City.
4:41And again, it's something that you'll never forget. Uh the reactions from these people that went down were like it was just phenomenal. People on the streets were just cheering as they went through uh for their help. So, it gives me a pleasure. Um, County of Columbia proclamation recognizing the 25th anniversary of 911
5:03where September 11th, 2026 marks the 25th anniversary of the tragic attacks of September 11, 2001. A day that forever changed our nation and left an enduring mark on the hearts and minds of people throughout the United States. And whereas on that solemn day, thousands of innocent people lost their lives, including first responders, firefighters, police officers, emergency medical personnel, and ordinary citizens who demonstrated extraordinary courage and selflessness in the face of unimaginable circumstances.
5:41And whereas the events of September 2001 reminded our nation of the strength, compassion, courage, and unity that emerged when Americans stand together in times of adversity.
5:55And whereas 25 years later, we continue to honor the memory of those who perished, recognize the sacrifices made by first responders and members of the military, and extend our gratitude to the families who continue to carry the loss of their loved ones. And whereas the Columbia County Board of Supervisors recognizes the importance of preserving the memory and the lessons of September 11th so that future generations understand the significance of that day and the extraordinary acts of courage and service that followed.
6:29And whereas we also recognize the continued service and dedication of our firefighters, law enforcement officers, emergency medical personnel, military members, and other first responders who protect our communities every day. Now therefore, it be it proclaim that the Columbia County Board of Supervisors hereby recognizes September 11th, 2026 as the 25th anniversary of September 11th, 2001 and calls upon the residents of Columbia County to pause, reflect, remember, and honor all those whose lives were lost are forever changed by the events of that day.
7:13and be further proclaimed that we honor the courage of those who responded. Remember the victims and their families and reaffirm our commitment to the values of unity, service, courage, and compassion that continue to strengthen our communities and our nation.
7:33given under my hand and the privy seal of the county of Columbia at the supervisor's chambers in Hudson, New York this 9th day of September, 2026. Matt Burrell, chairman, Columbia County Board of Supervisors. Thank you.
7:48Thank you.
7:58Next, I'd like to have Supervisor Collins come forward. Oxford House is the chair of the health and human services committee.
8:12Uh before I start, I would like to applaud EJ Keeler and all the efforts we got.
8:22Thank you very much, sir.
8:27All right. Columbia County proclamation recognizing the Oxford House of Columbia County. Whereas Oxford House is a community-based peerup supported network that provides individuals in recovery from substance use disorders with safe, stable, and supportive housing. And whereas the Oxford House of Columbia provides a vital resource for individuals seeking to maintain their sobriety while rebuilding their lives, strengthening families, and becoming productive members of the community.
8:53And whereas recovery is strengthened when individuals have access to safe housing, peer support, accountability, and opportunities to develop meaningful connections with their within their communities. Whereas Oxford House residents demonstrate each day that people in recovery can support one another, overcome challenges, and make positive contributions to their families, neighborhoods, workplaces, and communities.
9:18And whereas the Columbia County Board of Supervisors recognizes the importance of reducing stigma associated with addiction and supporting programs that promote recovery, independence, dignity, and hope. And whereas the Oxford House of Columbia has made a meaningful contribution to the health and well-being of our community by providing a supportive environment where individuals can continue their journey of recovery.
9:40And now therefore, be it proclaimed that we, the Columbia County Board of Supervisors, hereby recognizes and commends the Oxford House of Columbia County for its commitment to supporting individuals in recovery and strengthening our community. And be it further proclaimed that the board extends its appreciation to the residents, volunteers, and supporters of Oxford House for their dedication to creating opportunities for recovery, stability, and a brighter future. Given under the hand and privy seal of chairman Matt B. Morell on the county board of supervisors.
10:12Do we have anyone from Oxford House here tonight? Okay. Uh we will convey this on to them. But I'd also like to recognize Columbia Countyy's own director Dan Almasi of our mental health services who brought this in front of the home committee quite some time ago now. Uh we had his he had our support let's say as boards of supervisors for moving this ahead and this is a terrific program. So thank you very much Dan Masi and staff for bringing this ahead. Thank you.
10:48Right now, I'd like to request the clerk read the resolutions. [clears throat]
10:52Resolution 302 of 2026 to 343 of 2026 by Supervisor Fezy. Mr.
10:59Chairman, I open these resolutions for adopt. I second the motion. All in favor? Opposed? Okay. Um, next on the agenda, we are asked uh the sheriff Jackie Salvatore to address the board. Uh, but we we're going to be talking about contractual issues. So, we would like to go into executive session.
11:29I'll move that we go in executive session.
11:32Motion.
11:33Second.
11:34Second.
11:35All in favor? I
11:36opposed. I
11:38car.
11:41So, we're going to have to clear the room.
11:50We are going to go back into session afterwards.
11:53Cowards. Cowards.
11:55I'm a [ __ ] veteran of 911. I've joined the [ __ ] military.
12:02Patriot [ __ ]
12:03That's right. We got competition for the waiting room. Let's go, buddy.
12:09Wow. Wow. Wow.
12:12I can't. My aim isn't that good.
12:28There you go. You're absolutely wonderful.
12:56[laughter]
13:07Please [laughter] tire. I'd like to make a motion that we wave the confidentiality of the executive session that we just had and allow supervisors to discuss what was discussed with the public.
13:48Second. Nope. All
13:50in favor? Okay. Yes.
13:57Um, I would like to address all of the people who have come to express their concerns about flot cameras. I will start specifically with how uh we got flop cameras because there was nothing nefarious that had been done by the sheriff's office in 2023. uh it was brought before the public safety committee um that we wanted to purchase lock cameras.
14:23The purchase however um was going to be funded by or proposed to be funded by um private individuals and for that reason and that reason alone it was taken because of funding. Fast forward a few a few years later, we uh procured a law enforcement technology grant for $279,000.
14:55That grant came before public safety, it was approved. Um, and as with any other agency at that time, it has now been changed, but as with any other agency at that time, once the grant was approved, we purchased items because there are only specific items you can purchase from the the law enforcement technology grant and we bought cameras because again, there wasn't any objection to flop cameras. It was over funding.
15:25So this time we purchased um flop cameras. We have 10 cameras. Um eight are up now. One is down because someone decided they didn't want it there any longer. So the other is the other is down because a family received death threats. Um
15:51I'm glad people find that funny. Put one on your death. Put one on my front lawn. death rates about um
16:00being in the public. [clears throat] Being in the public, there is no expectation of privacy in public.
16:10Zero. It has been tried in court several times. Um, all of the stories about bad actors and data breaches and everything else associated with block cameras have one thing in common. A human input specific information about a vehicle. Block itself is not flawed. Hey guys, can I
16:51I'm going to advocate that the public has a chance to speak tonight, which is not normally what happens at these meetings. It's going to be really hard to get the board to vote on that. If you don't give the sheriff the respect of when she's speaking, you're listening. You might not agree with what she has to say, and that's okay. and I'm going to advocate for you to have a turn to say what you have to say. But if we can't be respectful, then that's not going to happen.
17:15And I would like to hear from each of you who came to speak. So I'm asking you nicely to give the sheriff the respect of letting her speak when she's speaking. And then when it's your turn to speak, if anyone tries to boo you or talk over you, I will ask for the same respect from them.
17:31Thank you.
17:32The company has had zero data breaches. Zero. You can cons you can contact them. They will put you in touch with the people in charge of their uh security. We have basic cameras that are license plate readers. We have license plate readers in every marked vehicle we've had. We have and they've been there for 20 years. For 20 years.
18:02The only reason information is brought up on specific individuals is because a human, a law enforcement officer, because Flock as a company does not have the ability, they don't have the capability to access any information associated with the license plate. They do not. only law enforcement does the cameras that we have.
18:33Um, we have a forward facing we have a forward facing dashboard. We try to put as much information out there as possible. I will say this that uh there are I'm fully aware that there are people whose minds I will never change about flot cameras and I will also tell you that I'm not interested in changing your mind about flot cameras because I I will respectfully agree to disagree.
19:02My purpose for being here today is to answer questions for those people who have and provide answers for those people who have questions about how the cameras work, what cameras we have, how we utilize them, data retention and the like. We are putting together a series of community conversations and we will go around this county doing those community conversations where people can ask their questions and have their questions answered about flop cameras and any other concern they have for the areas that they live in.
19:40It is an assistive tool for law enforcement just like DNA is just like a number of other things are. We have I mentioned we have a tool called the Tremble that takes digital measurements. That piece of equipment that saves hours and hours of time replaces the 100 foot tape measure that we took out of our vehicles at fatal car accidents when I graduated from the state police academy. Technology is advancing quicker than we have. Our cameras have no facial recognition technology. None. But you know what does? So many companies, [clears throat] businesses, um, are utilizing cameras.
20:39It's, you know, every other I have a Ring camera on my house. Some people have blank cameras. something everybody, not everybody, but the majority of people have um cameras these days because it assists when we have a concern and our residents.
20:59We only look if we have a specific reason to look at a license plate. Every user has to be registered and and uh capable of logging in. They have to have a case number and they have to provide a reason why they are looking for a specific plate number. We are ahead of the curve in that we put safeguards in place. We do self audits. We have two administrators who routinely just come in and I don't give them a time frame. They can check it whenever they want.
21:35We have uh clock has put in place uh technology for audits as well. So that if something is run a number of times they too will send us um information about what uh plate has been run so that we can check that out. So, you know, again, I know there are some people whose minds I will never change about PL cameras, but I will fight to the nth degree in my integrity and the integrity of the deputies at the Columbia County Sheriff's Office because we have not violated any of those rules with our flop cameras.
22:16We utilize them appropriately and necessarily. Other than that, they have not been Thank you for your time. Thank you everybody. [clears throat]
22:29Um, so I I do want to reiterate that uh the sheriff's office, although in 2023 a contract conversation happened, the sheriff's office did not break any rules to get to where we are today. I also was surprised at public safety earlier uh in the month that we had flat cameras because the grant resolution in 2024 didn't explicitly say flat cameras.
22:55So, we are going to tighten that loophole if it hasn't already been addressed. Um but but for the record, neither uh Sheriff Craft or Sheriff Salvatore broke any rules or, you know, didn't follow what they were supposed to follow. I think that's really important.
23:15Um, I am one of the people that the sheriff is never going to change my mind about flot cameras. Her and I disagree on them. I do not believe that flop cameras should be utilized by the sheriff's office. We're going to agree to disagree. I still think the sheriff does a wonderful job. I support her 100%. I disagree with her on this issue and it's an important issue to me.
23:34Um, in the meeting that we just had, now that we have weighed the confidentiality, there were two things that were really important to me that I would like to share with the public here. Um, Flock's website says, "We have not been hacked." So, I brought up in late 2025, 404 media found that Flock had left at least 60 of its AI enabled Condor PTZ cameras live streaming and exposed to the open internet. Anyone could watch them, download 30 days of video, archive, and change settings without any login.
24:04I asked them to clarify the SIM card was set to public. So that was not because someone hacked into their cameras. It was because the SIM card was set to public. I still think it's a bad thing, but that is according to block what occurred and they have since changed that.
24:20My big concern with block is not the sheriff's office. I tr trust the sheriff implicitly. I trust the deputies and everyone who works for the sheriff's office. I think we have a great sheriff's office here in Columbia County. I do not trust Flock. So my big concern is the data. Does Flock have access to the data? What are they allowed to do with the data?
24:42In reading the current contract, there are pieces that I'm not fully comfortable with how they're written. We are going to look into changing that wording to ensure that Flock cannot access that data other than to fix glitches or other things that they might need to on a technical side fix. uh that still doesn't make me support plot cameras, but that is a step for me in the right direction and I think that's an important thing um to address. Those are my pieces that I would like to share.
25:22Supervisor want to add anything?
25:25Supervisor. Um yes, if I could, um I would ask and I thank the sheriff for being here and explaining some of this and getting some of this straightened out for us, but um recognizing that the county has uh little control over um only a small portion of the cameras that probably exist in our community and I do respect the fact that people have concerns with the data and where is it, how's it being stored, how's it being managed and and all of those things.
25:48Um, I have shared with a few of you, but Senator Hini's office has introduced a bill in the New York State Senate um, offering stricter regulations and uh, controls for all um, camera reading programs in the state. Um, and I think that I would like to ask the public safety committee to consider trying to get a resolution together that would support that technology um, and trying to move that forward in the near future.
26:16Um, so I think that if you read that law and I can share the diploma with anybody, but uh that does answer a lot of the concerns we have on data collection, storage, and management. So the law is already out there. It's just in committee. Um, but our local senator has it and we can get behind it.
26:32And I believe there's a sponsor on the assembly.
26:35There is. Yeah, I did speak with Scott Bend and he was good to get behind it. I haven't spoke to um the Barrett's office yet, but you know
26:48Okay. Um, unless there's any other supervisor having any comment, uh, we can open it up to, uh, public comment. Uh, brief public comment, but how many, uh, if you could raise your hand, how many of you would like to
27:06All right. So, why don't we do two minutes? This is not a Q&A. This is you making your statement and for the record and then we'll move on to the next person. So we'll start
27:20first why don't we start with this gentleman right here and you please state your name for the record.
27:26My name is Peter James Stalling. I'm from Nyraville.
27:30Okay. I I thank you for allowing me to speak and I want to apologize for the disruptions.
27:37Um I do have a concern. Uh as we know anything can be hacked. Uh that is my name big concern. And uh number two I feel that it is a violation of privacy because I'm a drone pilot and um I go by the FAA rules. If I were to stop over somebody's house and look down at my camera, uh that's disrespectful. And I feel that these slack cameras are disrespectful.
28:10Um, it's a violation of privacy. Um, I don't do that. I follow the rules. We've had sheriff's deputies and police and it's on record that they use the black cameras for their personal use to find information on their ex lovers. Okay. What's going to stop this from happening with our sheriff's department, state police, and what have you? There's always one bad apple, and I'm concerned about that. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
28:42Thank you.
28:48Person in the front row over there.
28:52Hello, I'm Jolene Baron. I'm from East Chattam and I'm representing a few hundred members of the East Chattam Graange. I hope you'll accept a official copy of our resolution opposing clock cameras and other related technologies. That's the official sealed version. I have several here if you want to take one pass just so you can get an idea of the text of it and if anybody else wants to speak to the Grange about this and we'd be happy to host you at one of our meetings.
29:21Um, I I just want to start off by saying I fully believe everything that the sheriff is telling us today. I believe she's being honest in her intentions and what she thinks. I totally I disagree with some of the things that she says, but I totally I do not think she's a bad actor or she's lying or she's running into some kind of a scam. I just want to say that right off the bat. This is not a personal thing. But what I am concerned about is I feel like I'm in the plot of a bad dystopian movie.
29:53Okay, we have a couple people up here saying they oppose these things, but you know, we'll get some tighter legislation about it or at least we haven't been hacked. That's just polishing the turret. Okay, that doesn't solve the problem. Previous courts have ruled about expectations of privacy in the public space and frankly a lot of them are very old predate a lot of the modern technology we have and are frankly irrelevant to our current discussion. There have been a few more modern cases that have warned at that time that the technology wasn't there yet but it probably will be someday. Well, I would argue that today is someday. It's going too far and too fast because the previous rulings have been about plain view and were limited by the human capacity to what they could see or legitimately handle.
30:53I'm just telling you have five seconds.
30:55Oh, I'm sorry. This a a huge drag net surveillance system that is active 247 is not a plain view issue. This is like prior restraint the analogy in uh what's it called? Yeah, we're assumed to have the I'm sorry I forgotten the word uh when you ban a book censorship. Okay, we're doing prior restraint surveillance instead of after the fact. After the fact, we're fine. Use assist of technology, but the prior thing is what gets
31:36Hey, thank you.
31:41How many people signed this?
31:44U correction? Yeah,
31:46she meant to say Columbia County branch and it's not how many people signed it. It's a resolution that passed through the subordinate and then counted on the system.
31:54It's too bad. I thought each chat would bulk their numbers up.
31:57Yeah. No, I [laughter] like Oh man, we're really doing good.
32:01Sir, you're Sir, you're next with your hand up.
32:04Okay.
32:05I I just wanted to add um some specificity to what Jolene was saying. um 2012, SCOTUS rules 90 that the government's installation of a GPS tracking device on a suspect's vehicle and subsequent use of that device to monitor the vehicle's movements constitutes a search under the fourth amendment. In the opinion, uh, Scalia, Justice Scalia stated that, uh, it may be that achieving the same result through electronic means without an accompanying trespass, meaning physically attaching a GPS monitor is an unconstitutional invasion of privacy, but the present case does not require us to answer that question.
32:43And this is sometimes the problem with court precedent, which is it can be very limited in scope. You have to have standing. You have to have suffered some sort of of a grievance that that was done to you, some sort of negative effect for you to have standing to file a suit. And until you have that, you can't sue as as speaking of prior restraint, you can't sue to prevent something from happening. It has to happen first and then it's a reactive effect.
33:08And I think that all of us, all of us absolutely know that the founding fathers did not intend for someone to be able to fly over your house and that way see the pot field or whatever it might be. That would have been a search in their mind. Just like you being tracked everywhere you go and they know maybe who you're associating with and everything else. That's not a legitimate purpose of our government. That's something that you would have found in East Germany or the Soviet Union and in other totalitarian states.
33:34And I remember when I was young growing up in the delightful Reagan years where that would have been ridiculed. Those paper, those people with papers, please, where are you going? Where have you been? Who are you talking to? That's it's disgusting. It's reprehensible. And no amount of, oh, it's just for safety. And don't you care about the children? And doesn't somebody want to do something for the whales? That's great, but it doesn't mean it's compatible with our system, our republic, which was given to us by people way smarter than us.
34:02And I am very much opposed to this system. I think it should be removed. And frankly, I also always oppose the automatic license plate readers on on police vehicles. They should not be using those. If you don't have a reason to pull someone over that you can two eyeballs, then you don't have a reason to pull them over. There shouldn't be some automated system alerting you to some inspection or an insurance issue or registration. If you don't have a suspicion that somebody is involved with some sort of violation, you should not be interacting with that individual unless there's a safety or an exigent circumstance.
34:40Please raise your Yeah, raise your hand if you
34:44could state your name. I'm sorry.
34:46Yeah. Hi, I'm James Borne uh from North Chadam. Um agree with everything that's been said so far. Um I'm really I'm troubled by the presence of this. I appreciate the fact that flock is something that is invading a lot of counties and jurisdictions across the country right now. Um, and I appreciate what the sheriff was saying about this was something that was in the works for a long time and there's nothing nefarious involved here. Um, you know, I believe that.
35:15Um that being said, a lot has changed in the last two years in our country and the technologies and the forceful movement of artificial intelligence is something I think is really difficult for us to fully grasp or contemplate. It's moving faster than we can keep track.
35:40And I do think that while I'd like to be able to say I trust the sheriff's department and their use of this technology, um I don't know that I can. Law enforcement generally speaking um in my view has a pretty rough uh reputation with civil rights. But that being said, you know, my my personal con concern hasn't been brought up yet is what are our relationships with other law enforcement agencies that do not share the priorities of our communities here.
36:16And I'm talking specifically about ICE. And I'm also talking about the states that are currently restricting women's reproductive health, reproductive rights, and their ability to use the safety of our laws, our way of trying to protect each other and keep each other safe. Um, you know, are we coordinating with other states like Texas that would like to incarcerate those women and their families and their doctors?
36:44So, um, yeah, just to say I hope that you take us seriously and when it comes down to it, you all are the ones that are best that are here to like represent us and the things that we're expressing to you. I do agree that I think it's nice that there's there are people looking at laws to tighten these things up and improve them, but we're relying on you all and your ability to protect us from these things. We can't just We're trying to do our best with our voices here to do that for ourselves, but ultimately you all are the ones to do it for us. So, thank you for this.
37:28Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
37:32Hi, my name is Chris Bishop. Uh, currently in Hudson, but moving again. Um, there are a lot of points I could talk about, but um, for one thing, uh, the idea that a private individual can can purchase one of these, put it on their property, and start surveilling their neighbors and any passer by and have control of that data is pretty uh, outrageous. And if you think of that and then apply it to law enforcement as well, you can see that the potential for violation there.
38:01Um, also I would say uh regarding the sheriff who said that she has a forward- facing website about her transparency, if you look at that website, it is created by Flock. It has a Flock logo right on it on the top left. It is something generated by clock for any law enforcement that's being challenged LPRs. So on there
38:37person in the back raising his hand.
38:42State your name please.
38:43Hi my name is Brian McCormack. I uh have resided in the county for the majority of my life. I was born here at CH, one of the last few generations that can claim that. I'm also one of the co-executive directors of Columbia County Sanctuary Movement. And our primary concern is the use of this data to hunt and track down and do unwarranted seizures of our neighbors and take them and separate from their separate them from their families.
39:13In addition to that, um I disagree with the representation that the only objection to block cameras in the board of supervisors meeting originally was about cost. And that's not my opinion. That is the actual reality of supervisors that are pre were present in that meeting and have come to us and have spoke spoken to media about their understanding and their interpretation of that meeting.
39:41And I hope you all who were present there can also dig deep, look at the notes and think about was this just the fact that a private individuals were funding funding it and the names of those individuals were not being disclosed or were there other issues with you all feeling like we shouldn't be surveiled including yourselves.
40:02Uh it's not that I don't trust what the sheriff is saying. I don't trust what Block is saying and I don't trust any company that makes money off of surveilling us and selling our data to other people and other agencies in order to violate our civil liberties and our rights. Anywhere from what we were talking about with immigration to reproductive rights to tracking people to political speech.
40:28Flock is literally training people how to use Flock to track what protests they go to. And that is part of the interface of their training. And it's not just SWAT. I don't trust Motorola. I don't trust Axon. We should not be trusting big tech with all of this data when their motive is not safety. Their motive is profit.
40:51Um, additionally, it was mentioned that all of us have technology on our phones. The reality of the situation is if somebody wants my whereabouts and how I use Google Maps, if I'm using Google Maps, what do they have to do? They have to get a subpoena. They have to show that there was wrongdoing, at least enough suspicion for a judge to issue a subpoena or a search warrant where in this regard, they're literally collecting all of that information before anyone has done anything wrong. We don't even have to do anything wrong to be surveiled.
41:27Additionally, I want you all to recognize the unity that is in this room. Out of all the years I've lived here, although it's been shorter than many of you, I've never seen this polar opposite sides of a political spectrum, come together around this issue, and unanimously say, "It doesn't matter what party we're from. It doesn't matter what our political beliefs are. Our values and principles are we do not want unwarranted search and seizure." and violation of our fourth amendment rights.
41:58And that that is why even some of the most conservative governors in the entire nation of Texas and Florida are issuing moratoriums on the use of flock and uninstalling them across our state. If we want to go against the grain on this issue, I can guarantee you that this room right now is just the beginning. And two board meetings from now, you will have your constituents from every corner of this county out the door and around the block because we're not going to tolerate it.
42:33Thank you.
42:42All didn't voice a reason. very impressed with the cogent points made by the fire speakers both Jackie who I have a very high regard for as well as what I've heard and the weight and the substance of their arguments and their position. This world is very different from what I grew up in. 2006 we had the freed act. The federal government took to collecting all this information about everyone, every freaking phone conversation, just about everything that's going on in the world. And there's data breaches. You know, it's not a perfect world. It's not a perfect world. The world has changed. It's not the world I grew up in.
43:36And I don't think it's better. I don't think it's better. I mean you can make the analogy to the atomic bomb. Now book written in 1950 the very beginning someone I regard highly that the human the human nature is not up to having this the the technology of this vast explosion.
44:04So this is a technology and and I think that you know the sheriff's fuse is really kind of immaterial but the argument is much bigger than than the little bit of the eight cameras or nine cameras you know like you got 21 different supervisors what do you got what one com camera for two supervisors so it's really not a conse it's immaterial it's not really totally consequential but the point is bigger than how it's being used.
44:34It's actually a I don't know. It's actually a the way we treat each other and the regard that we have for one another. It's like we don't trust each other. We have to monitor people. Is that what the world's become? So, I'll leave it there.
44:59Thank you. the other side of the room first person in the front row. I just want to remind you two minutes from Hudson region.
45:13I'm sorry. We did.
45:15What's up?
45:16Your name?
45:17Oh, Hayes from the Hudson area. Um, first off, want to thank Linda for your transparency earlier. I know generally I don't let people talk in here. I appreciate you coming out with that. And I don't even know your name. I can't see that far.
45:29Just
45:30Okay. I appreciate you as well for making the motion so the people could speak and the last couple speakers did uh come to the point that all of us did come together and it's a good gathering and I can't articulate the same way the last couple speakers they spoke very well but I still felt compelled I want to be able to do that super well it is a meaningful issue and I did want to educate myself objectively about what's happening here and one of the best cases that I did say made was what if your children was kidnapped and they take it from you wouldn't all means possible to be able to get them back. And that pulled out my heartstrings. I do have four kids and that's a very good point.
46:10But when you look at the totality of it and you play it all the way out there, our children are going to be kidnapped. They are going to be taken by the system that we're putting in place, the cages that we're putting around it, the monitoring, the system, everything. It's gonna happen and it's by our own decisions. So what we're trying to uh get away from fear base of it actually going to give into is going to happen in its eventuality.
46:37There's one analogy I heard called the master key analogy. You might trust the sheriff now. It might be a good sheriff. You might trust them giving your key to every house that's around.
46:49But what happens eventually down the road to several administrations later and you don't know this person. They're going to tell you they're putting all these safeguards in place. Not going to give you all the information. You already seen what happened here today. They didn't want full transparency at first. They probably cleaned it up and whatever they got to say, let us back in. I do appreciate you for letting us talk to you. That was great. That was a good move right there.
47:09And then something I read about today called limiting principle. We want that in place. As soon as you open that door for that, all other type of stuff is going to happen. And we're going to give away our freedom, our liberty, good news. And um I know there going to be some minds that we can't change either about the flop system and how we feel about us, but at least we can speak, ignite, and it was some good ideas today about us coming together again.
47:33Whatever they said about that point, constituents and all that different, we do got a vote. We do got some type of authority and it's collective. It's amongst each other. and I appreciate the opportunity. Two minutes. Thank you.
47:53My name is Juliana. I live in Greenport. I love living here. Juliana Waltz like the dance. Yeah.
48:00I just wanted to say um that regardless of whether or not Flock has had a data breach yet, we have example after example after example that it's the marriage of Flock and Police forces that compromises privacy and puts citizens in danger. Uh Sheriff Salvatore herself said that technology is advancing quicker quicker than we can. So there maybe have no been uh been no data breaches to this point from flock although I guess that's in question.
48:28Um but that has no bearing on tomorrow um the near future or the far future as technology gets more and more out of our hands. Um and just because the department was granted funds specifically for surveillance equipment that doesn't mean they need to surveil us. Um I I'd rather not set that precedent. Um, we have an opportunity to be a model for a community where the citizens and law enforcement work really well together.
48:56Um, police have been able to do great police work before this technology existed and can continue to do so. Um, and so many of us who are law-abiding uh, still don't want to live under state scrutiny in any way and we deserve a say in that. So, thanks for your time. Thank you.
49:15cousin from Hudson. I want to speak plainly as an elected official. I oppose block technology in Hudson and across Columbia County. Not because I'm opposed to safety, but because I reject the idea that surveillance is safety. Um, an abolitionist politic asks us to question the systems we are told are necessary.
49:43asks us to look beyond whether a technology could be a useful can be useful to police and instead ask whether police should have that power in the first place. Flock is not simply a camera. It's an infrastructure for policing movement. It allows the state to collect, store, search and analyze information about where people travel and it normalizes the idea that simply moving through your own community should make you uh part of a law enforcement database. That is not freedom.
50:06We cannot talk about this technology as though surveillance happens in a vacuum. Black communities have never experienced policing as neutral. Immigrant communities have never experienced government surveillance as neutral. We can create a new tool for monitoring movement, identifying vehicles, and sharing information across jurisdictions. And we are expanding the capacity of systems that have historically criminalized and surveiled those very communities. Thank you.
50:40Hi, I'm Eli Deluxe. I live on State Street for two and a half years now. Um, I'm very anti- flock acts on all of these government surveillance things. I get the impulse to react blindly in fear. You know, so many things are so scary right now, but giving up further freedoms under the delusion that it provides more safety is stupid and shortsighted and at the end of the day cowardly.
51:09I have a degree of empathy for the people who feel such fear of their neighbors and the world, but they're willing to harm themselves in the hope of relief from that fear. But that empathy quickly evaporates when the reality of their willingness to harm others to sell the lives of their neighbors is seen as a cowardice I used ethically in the right hands with safeguards.
51:38As the sheriff earlier said today, these are humans at the other other end of that thing. And while I think she meant it to be a kind of like um warm feeling in people, I think we've seen already in other counties in in in America how the human part of this uh the stalking of women, you know, the the pinging of the wrong person for a crime and and swarming, you know, we could kill someone, right? And police often do.
52:06Um there's just no such thing historically, right? I mean, even here, Columbia County, I heard it was just a couple weeks ago that our own sheriff's department has like a DUI in their own vehicle here. That's kind of the human part of this policing. Um, and to conflate Flock and the national database, by the way, like comes as a part of having a Flock camera. There's no opting out of and saying, "Oh, we just keep these things here." No, it's like a part of a large, you know, infrastructure.
52:37to conflate that uh with less invasive technologies like uh the tape measure does feel to me to be in bad faith. Um I don't consider myself to be a particularly brave person, but I find myself, you know, I find myself often afraid in these times. Uh but I am brave enough to not pass off the kidnapping, the detention, and the slaughter of my own neighbors as safety for myself. It's not a net win for my safety.
53:04And I I don't think myself a genius either, but I'm not stupid enough to believe this thinly failed lie either. I was in sixth grade when 911 happened. I joined the Air Force during the global war on terror. The majority of my life has been marked by the Patriot Act and the culling of our freedom. Do you feel safer now?
53:28Do you feel more free? I can tell you empirically no. I ask you to open your eyes to recognize to be honest and brave.
53:49Thank you.
53:50Thank you. Sure.
54:01I'm Jonathan. I'm from the town of Chadam and I'm going to keep these because I don't feel I'm fulfilled with all the petitions I need to sign with all diesel. These were these are petitions that are signed for the people and the county.
54:15It was just the start of it. This was shattered fair time just those days. And you know what? We took a mental health day from it too. Also, we uh my team has been eating flock. We know more about flock than probably any of you. So, I'm a little unfiltered and my my my stuff is a little more than three minutes. So, I'm just going to read and I hope you know you all follow along.
54:39Thanks for having me up here and the other guys, too. Um, as New York State elected officials, you guys do do an oath. You guys know what that old is. You put your hand on a Bible and you you hold up the Constitution, right? That's what you're supposed to do. Keep us safe. Run [ __ ] smoothly, comfortably, stuff like that. Okay, this this county right now is not looking good. It's quite embarrassing.
55:02Take crane. We got to stop for what? What's going on over there? And uh rack and now this [ __ ]
55:13Clean, kill it.
55:15Dang it. feel like the baseline standard of public service is completely on fire. Before we even talk about resolutions, this board needs to start doing its homework on mass surveillance. I mean, you really need to look into it and not just go by a smoke screen here. Um, because that's all I heard when she talked. [clears throat]
55:38You need to keep up with your current tech news to see what's going on in the other communities around us. They're not they're not hanging with this [ __ ] either. Sorry, they're not hanging with this. Other counties pine planes just did it themselves in your own little town. We possess a home rule. I don't know how that goes with public service and police in our municipal home rule. Everybody, you had Okay. Okay.
56:06What were you talking about resolutions starting? I said that you cannot pass policies on technology you do not understand. If you keep up with current tech news, you would know that these systems require continuous unapproved software updates just to keep running. You would know they are funded by sneaking through backdoor state grants and
56:31got 30 seconds.
56:33Thanks.
56:35That's thousands of dollars of entertainer money. Does anybody know taxpayer is going to cost after funding comes out the subscription cost or anything like that that can cost the taxpayer money for the 10 cameras or maybe 11? Is there one on revenue that we can't find?
56:50Um I think you're discussing I think you're devious what
57:04you're attacking our elected official. No, I read your insults.
57:08My insults were because of backgrounds.
57:11Okay, we're going to end the public comment area.
57:20We're done.
57:23He's a young gentleman. I don't think because Keely wasn't respectful, we should deny him the opportunity.
57:33Can you address the board though? Thank you. My name is Emtt Bishop Hayes. I'm a student at Shadow High School. I'm 17 years old. Uh, and I live in G. Sheriff Jackie, you emphasized that Faulk is never the source of error that only you and other law enforcement officeration of these cameras any better.
57:58How can we trust cops like you when police have killed over 30,000 people since 2000? According to the Raza database project in Unidos, when there are people in the streets protesting the unjust murder of predominantly people of color by law enforcement every single year and you want us to trust you. Countless instances of law enforcement officers just like you stalking there as partners, the sheriff in uh the investigative officer in Albany using this flock database. How can we trust you? How can we trust you? Okay, we're going to close the public comment period and move on with our agenda.
58:39Do any supervisors have any issues to bring to the board?
58:43I just
58:44Supervisor Adams,
58:45I just wanted to mention that there is a 911 service at 6:30 on Friday at the Harry at the elementary school on Harry Howard Avenue. Y
58:54and the public is invited.
58:56Thank you, Supervisor Hley. Along those same lines on uh Friday uh starting at 8:46 a.m. Time was first uh impact uh in counter Germantown there will be a 911 ceremony from remembered ceremony um little extra flare this this year after the 25th anniversary there'll be a processioning of the um fire department to from the fire department to the uh the monument. So everybody's welcome to attend.
59:24Thank you. Supervisors
59:25and Kendy's had a 911 every year since 91 Friday night.
59:32Supervisor Collins.
59:33Yeah, I recognize this in a public safety meeting. Um I I want to recognize Wayne Gearing. Um he is stepping down from his position, but we just celebrated 60 years of service to the East Chattam Fire Company. So I want to recognize Wayne Gearing. Not only does he have children in the firefighting force, I believe he has grandchildren as well. you know, and those gen generational families are just so critical to keeping [clears throat] our fire departments moving.
59:56So, I want to recognize Wayne and also we had a resolution tonight moving ahead uh with the EMS chargebacks and with the EMS contracting now with the county with various providers. And I just thought it was great that the algorithm that was used was something that um actually the towns of Gent, Ashawa, Kenan and New Lebanon and Chadam had worked on and working with one of these providers. Um, and I thought it was a really good experience to have the back and forth with the different town supervisors and with the providers themselves. And I think it really benefited us and allowed us to make that decision to use that algorithm and hopefully it works for the county.
1:00:37I just wanted to uh thank BJ Hummer, emergency medical services director for the work that he's done on this because I think this is going to change and fortify our emergency medical services in the county for years to come. So DJ, I just want to say thank you. Pleasure.
1:01:01Um, so to my colleagues, Kelly shared a resolution today that the New Lebanon Town Board passed unanimously at our meeting last night. Uh, I realize that we have different opinions on Flock. I feel very strongly and, uh, the town board unanimously across party lines. We passed a resolution opposing the use of flop cameras. We obviously have no authority as the town of New Lebanon over the sheriff's office or the county of Columbia.
1:01:24Um but each of you may have a town police department. Uh all of us together as supervisors have um legislative ability over the county. And I would like uh each of you individually to consider bringing it to your town board and I would like uh this board to consider bringing something to public safety at next month's meeting and um take a vote and see where it lands. I feel very strongly that we should not be utilizing flap cameras here at
1:01:59uh on the 911 on Friday. Just wanted to make sure that everybody knew that the Hudson Athens lighthouse will start ringing um from when the first plane hit until 10:03. and the community, everyone in the county is invited to come down and be together at the lighthouse and hear the
1:02:20morning. Thank you, Supervisor Simmons. I'd [clears throat] just like to uh one more time thank Sheriff and whole Columbia County task force here uh for coming out and educating us on what's happening and I appreciate it taking the time and very knowledgeable. Thank you.
1:02:41Okay. And I I just would like to thank the crowd only because uh we needed to take some time to educate the supervisors, many of whom had not been intimately involved in this issue and we felt it important important that the sheriff, brief the supervisors prior to them having public comments. So, thank you, Sheriff.
1:03:05Supervisor Adams,
1:03:07I promise this will be the last one. This is a self-serving but very appropriate uh uh thank you to Supervisor Simmons. Five years ago, the towns of Oustralitz and Gent and Lebanon and CH uh Kanan worked together to apply for federal funding for last mile buildout for uh highspeed internet in our communities. Um Congressman Delgado was able to secure the funding.
1:03:35Supervisor Simmons had the extraordinary job of executing a federal grant with all of the burden that comes with that. And also Dave Berman who is our technology assistance uh allow worked uh without uh without any rest I think for four years to get this done. We were notified this week that the the buildout had been completed. So now there's several hundred residents in our communities that are going to be served by highspeed internet. Thank you so much for all the work that you did not only on your on all of our bands. It was really welcome and much appreciated.
1:04:11Thank you very much,
1:04:16Supervisor M.
1:04:17We want to thank you all coming and I encourage you to keep organizing. Go to your town meetings, [clears throat] see everybody that you see in this room and please uh this is the future. young man, 17 years old. I I'm my hats off to you. I think it's amazing. All of you people speaking, please keep speaking. We are at a point in our lives in America.
1:04:43We're at a huge risk of what's coming at us faster than the Columbia County Sheriff's Office or even us can imagine. So, good for you and I'm glad you got to speak tonight. And I wish the county supervisors would allow public comments at every board of supervisors meeting.
1:05:16Comment.
1:05:18I'm sorry. I didn't mean public comment. Supervisor.
1:05:23Okay. With that, uh, prior to adjourning the meeting, I' I'd like to take a moment of silence. Uh, Hudson, former Hudson supervisor Gail Grandonetti passed away. She was supervisor for 12 years and actually her funeral was today, but can we take a moment of silence?
1:05:50Thank you. Uh, motion to adjourn. I'll make that.
1:05:54All in favor? A little scary.

Timestamps link to the corresponding moment on YouTube. Auto-transcribed, contains speech-recognition errors. Not an official record.